1" 1/2 pto shaft 6 splines?

Satamax · May 21, 2018, 05:26:38 PM

Hi everybody!

Well, on the carco winch i just bought. The pto input shaft is 38mm, or 1" 1/2 Six plines. The winch is either from an allis chalmers or an IH crawler. So i guess imperial, and not metric.

Anybody know where i could find a sleeve for this, which i could weld on the chain transmission's shaft i plan to use?

The other question. The shaft, out of my rockwell T case, a t-226, is 6 spline too. on the t-226 manual they say, 1.79", six splines. The closest pto shaft is 1" 3/4. Which is about 1mm smaller than the shaft used in the t case. Would this be considered "within tolerances" ?

Thanks a lot guys.

Thanks a lot and best regards.

bushmechanic · May 21, 2018, 08:37:18 PM

Satamax if that winch was from an IH crawler it shouldn't be too hard to source a coupler as there a lot of aftermarket parts for farm tractors and the early crawlers and tractors share a lot of the same parts. As for the transfer case I would just look for a yoke to fit it and machine it or fabricate it to what you need, will be easier than looking for a PTO to match. I don't think the PTO shaft coupler will work with an interference fit of .004" unless there is a lot of wear on the shaft splines. Good luck with your project!

mike_belben · May 22, 2018, 03:45:32 AM

Grob inc makes all that stuff.

Id need to see a sketch with numbers to follow along on what youve got planned. Are you saying youll be mating a 1.790 female with a 1.750 male?

If so thats about normal. Tractor slip spline is a pretty loose fit.

Satamax · May 22, 2018, 05:05:51 AM

Thanks a lot for the replies guys.

Mike, 1.79 rockwell special "thingy" Six plines. With the cross bellow. That is the proportional PTO out on the transfer case. I might just get one flange done. Or turn it myself. I have a flange like the one on the chain transmission bellow, which is approximately the size of my rockwell PTO out, cross.

I want to mate this "cross"

To the chain "transmission" flange

So flange at the bottom of the chain transmission , mated to the PTO out cross. That cross has a six spline 1.79" shaft inside. I would fit it the easiest way i can.

And the shaft out of the chain transmission, will be cut, turned, and a sleeve for the 1.5" pto shaft in the winch, welded onto this shaft. I just need to find a sleeve for that side. Actually, i have 29cm between PTO center and winch pto shaft center, and the chain transmission has 35. So with 12cm U joists, i should be perfectly fine to make the winch chassis.

Is this explanation clear enough?

Satamax · May 22, 2018, 06:16:47 AM

Found the coupler.

HUB CITY Splined Coupling,1-1/2,Splines 6 - 15V693|0332-00347 - Grainger

mike_belben · May 22, 2018, 09:35:15 AM

Yes, im with you now, thanks.

Would it would be easier to turn a puck adapter with a male cross on one face and a blind hole tapped bolt circle on the other? The cross output looks like itll need a seal retainer plate.

You arent gonna physically marry the two cases are you? Theyll be divorced mounted with a rigid coupling? The cross acts a lot like a lovejoy, i think they allow 2* misalignment or something like that.

Satamax · May 22, 2018, 05:50:17 PM

Quote from: mike_belben on May 22, 2018, 09:35:15 AM
Yes, im with you now, thanks.

Would it would be easier to turn a puck adapter with a male cross on one face and a blind hole tapped bolt circle on the other? The cross output looks like itll need a seal retainer plate.

You arent gonna physically marry the two cases are you? Theyll be divorced mounted with a rigid coupling? The cross acts a lot like a lovejoy, i think they allow 2* misalignment or something like that.

I'll either make a puck with a cross. Or get rid of the cross and use the 1.79 six spline shaft. But either one of those solutions will need to have a retainer plate with a oil seal. That's for sure. The retainer plate with oil seal, i can turn myself. Even with bearings, if i need to. But the splines, i can't cut with the gear i have. The cross puck, with the mill drill i have. I can do, no prob.
But this work, is all labour intensive. I just whish it would have been easier!

mike_belben · May 22, 2018, 07:11:24 PM

Tell me about it. I just planed out a pitchfork handle. Still need to make the head before i can turn the compost easier so i can grow the garden better. Lotta work for some cucumbers.

Is there a support bearing behind that puck or was it designed to have one on the other end? Thats one thing youll need to make sure of before you make any chips, that the whole rig is sufficiently supported no matter which way you go.

Satamax · May 23, 2018, 12:28:41 AM

Quote from: mike_belben on May 22, 2018, 07:11:24 PM
Tell me about it. I just planed out a pitchfork handle. Still need to make the head before i can turn the compost easier so i can grow the garden better. Lotta work for some cucumbers.

Is there a support bearing behind that puck or was it designed to have one on the other end? Thats one thing youll need to make sure of before you make any chips, that the whole rig is sufficiently supported no matter which way you go.

Definitely well supported. There is two bearing on the input shaft of the T-226 transfer case, onto which this puck is affixed at the end. So i'm safe to make a go through flange, and sealing plate. I have asked a mate, if he has the gear to cut internal splines.
And for your cucumber, may be try permaculture? ;D
https://permies.com/t/33835/Procrastinator-permaculture

mike_belben · May 23, 2018, 12:44:09 AM

Im too industrial/christian/capitalist to be a permie, but i have stolen plenty of their tech over the years. Have built a lot of stoves, processed a lot of waste vegetable oil and am building a timber/cordwood home on my own land. Now i garden. I weld and cut wood in crocs.

Wow. Sounds pretty bad when i tally it all up at once. :D

Satamax · May 23, 2018, 03:44:21 AM

Well, you can be a permie with whatever background you have.

It's not that you need to be budhist, commie or anything. All you need is to grow some plants, and do it cleverly. Not rows of crops, chemically treated, tilled etc.

What made me go to their site, is stoves.

If you build a cordwood home, you're ready for the sunray kelley outfit! ;D

mike_belben · May 23, 2018, 09:29:32 AM

Well Max, i couldnt beat em so i guess ill have to join.

Last year was my first garden, in this same spot. I bottom plowed it 2x to really clear out the roots from it being timbered land up to the 1980s.. then chisel plowed, disced and hand raked until i had nice soft dark ground. Worked my butt of constantly fighting thick weeds and lugging buckets of pondwater across the yard to keep the 19 seed varieties i planted from withering in the hot sun. It all started nicely, then shrivelled up and quit. I tried a bunch of off the shelf product over this span. By mid summer all was dead. It consumed all of my time and produced nothing.

I was so frusterated that i took the bobcat and just scraped down an 8 or 10 inch deep trough right out of the lawn and dumped it all onto the driveway where i needed more fill. No more dark clumpy dirt. What i threw out was rock hard sandy clay clods that broke apart into dust after a day in the sun. The life was gone and i was perplexed, so like always, time to study.

I made soil from then on and put it back into that same trough. This garden was transplanted from sprouts on may 8th into pure compost i made, and sheet mulched the next day with cardboard and power company branch chips. Ive added only water and some raw molasses in water occasionally. No fertilizer, weed or insect treatment. I havent pulled a weed, there are tons of bugs crawling around that dont do much harm. flea beatles chew on the cherry tomatoes all day but the plants are still thriving. If i peel back the cardboard there is white fungus all over and the ground is wet. The roots are right ontop the dirt sprawling everywhere, just under the cardboard which is almost gone. Lots of worms. Last years tomato plants made it to maybe 8" tall in 3 months.

I have concluded the hardest part of growing is making rich soil, which isnt really too bad now that ive got it down. This years garden is almost not enough work. I am never tilling dirt again, unless it is to kill the organic matter for making more driveway

Red romaine needed some shade, will relocate that next year.

Satamax · May 23, 2018, 02:49:36 PM

Nice! ;D

bushmechanic · May 23, 2018, 07:38:08 PM

So Satamax was there just a cover on that transfer case? That cross is a dog clutch for a PTO made by Rockwell not a lovejoy coupler.

Here some pic's of my transfer case with the PTO used to power my winch.

Satamax · May 24, 2018, 03:26:58 AM

Quote from: bushmechanic on May 23, 2018, 07:38:08 PM
So Satamax was there just a cover on that transfer case? That cross is a dog clutch for a PTO made by Rockwell not a lovejoy coupler. Here some pic's of my transfer case with the PTO used to power my winch.

Yep Bushmechanic. Just the cover and the fixed dog behind. The cheapest PTO i have found, is 795 dolls for the PTO. Plus shipping. And that PTO wouldn't do me much good. Since it would bring the winch backwards. The machine is a snowblower, built on the latil chassis, when new. Latil used to make skidders, well weird forestry tractors if you prefer. And Peter, the snowblower brand, use to buy naked chassis and cab to make the snowblowers. But it didn't need PTO or anything, since all was powered by the rear engine, air, hydraulics, and the snowblower.
Since the carco has a neutral. I will let the chain transmission run all the time. Pressing the clutch on the engine stops this PTO. So I can engage forward or reverse on the winch, and then engage the drum. The only problem left is to find a six spline 1.79 flanged coupler, or make it.
I'm still at the scrap metal gathering stage. I have cut all which was around the chain transmission. Snowblower turbine, back casing for the turbines, which i've kept the bottom part of this casing, to make the log blade pusher. Which will double as snow clearing blade in the winter. I have rams, tho two dual action, and two single. Slides for the back log basket. I still need to find metal for this one. I have U channel in different sizes to make the winch chassis. And fairlead arms.
By the way, your PTO looks a lot like a T-136 or T-223 PTO. How does the chain hold? Tough enough?
Thanks again guys.

bushmechanic · May 24, 2018, 05:18:43 AM

Yes I do believe your right about mine being a T223. But I would say that there is a yoke and a cover to fit that transfer case, more than likely the lower ones will fit. I have had no problems with the chain as of yet and it's a #60 or a #80 chain, not sure.

Satamax · May 24, 2018, 06:47:48 AM

Thanks for the reply Bushmechanic.

Well, i have peeled my eyes on the 136,223 and 226 transfer case manuals. I have found nothing as of yet!

Satamax · May 24, 2018, 10:33:51 PM

Ney good.

It's conical, 50mm big diameter. So, i gonna turn this straight. Make a sleeve. Weld it. Turn the welds. And find a guy who can do the splines. Or, at least, that's the way i see it.

Riwaka · May 25, 2018, 06:21:51 AM

Is there a local shop with the vehicle driveline parts and ag parts etc (Italian BYPY etc?)

Transmissions à cardan - Cardan & Attelage

Usually line old tires for food production as old tires contain some not so good chems that can leach.

Satamax · May 26, 2018, 04:02:11 PM

By the look of it, i think the solution is all found!

Since the diameter of the flanged yoke is very similar to the dog clutch diameter. And the thickness appropriate, i will machine 4 teeth onto the yoke's body. I might shorten it.

On the snowblower remains, i even have a cover which might be adaptable. If extreme luck strikes, the oil seal might even be the right size.