Log truck for a newbie

[USDragoon]

My home is Colorado, and I'm exploring an option presented to me a couple weeks ago about becoming a log truck driver. I would appreciate some seasoned advice/ wisdom from those in the know.
The logs to be hauled, I believe y'all refer to them as "long logs"... some 40 feet long.

The first question I want to ask is about a beginning truck. I've read, perhaps on this site or somewhere else, where those in the know were stating that, "... it needs to be double frame, 6x4 with lockers, no air suspension, at least 13 speed, jake brake, 500+ hp, KW T-800, Western Star, etc..."

I'm on a budget! lol  I would LOVE to have Das Ubber Wagon, but for now I can only dream of buying a truck that specialized.
As for used trucks, I don't seem to see many on the various sites as in the above quote. The ones I do see, seem to be relegated to the auction sites. or are in the $8k- $25K range. Makes me nervous!

I did find two trucks that may work... may be duds... don't know. A T800 with a tri- axle and 6x4, also a Western Star that appears to be a beast. It appeared to have had a "cosmetic head on" with a barrier wall, or another vehicle. I think that one was an insurance write off. Again... makes me nervous!

I just need to know what to plan for sometime after the CDL school. Do I have to sell my soul and buy high end/ new, and be "obliged" to never see my mountain for a few years, or should I settle for just something and hope it lasts long enough to upgrade?

Locally, the only semi trucks I see for sale on a regular basis are very used ranch type hay trucks, or sometimes a long haul rig that just won't make it far on an unimproved, or barely existing 'goat trail'.
I even looked at the trucker to trucker ads. Again, out of my league.

To make things just a little more complex/ high maintenance; I am going to need a sleeper on the rig. I have to admit, and remind myself that I'm not as young as I think I am anymore. These new and annoying aches and prolonged sore muscles remind me at the end of the day that I'm now a new member of AARP.  ...and yes! a built in Jacuzzi Spa tub would be a plus.  ;D

Also, I think I may need a trailer as well. I'm used to the rigs where I grew up in Western Washington. Very basic I-beam looking trailers that seem to hold a lot of logs.

Thanks!

[Riwaka]

You might have to find an old log truck driver (semi retired ) etc to show the right way of doing things. About the only way to give you the assistance on a steep learning curve. 
Reading that it could be possible that you are being set up as the fall guy.
Log truck drivers who go on to purchase their own trucks usually have years of experience driving log trucks and other trucks before they make the purchase. i.e most people buying log trucks to drive themselves know they like driving log trucks and know the hours they will have to drive to pay the truck costs (tires, diesel, oil, grease, fluids, coolant, tiedown equipment, parts etc)  and the amount of maintenance and wrenching they will have to do themselves to avoid paying a mechanic, to prevent the mechanic taking money out of their pocket too quickly.

Sounds like someone does not want to purchase a company log truck  and put a driver in it who then might have an accident causing problems.

Used Trucks Oregon worth $35 000 Used truck gets engine and frame destroyed to prevent further use.
How will Oregon clean up diesel air pollution? - YouTube    

Rigged. Forced into debt. Worked past exhaustion. Left with nothing. - USA TODAY

[snowstorm]

so you dont have a cdl? find some one that is hauling off the type of job you would like. ride with him for 2 weeks. if he starts at 3 am so do you. if after 2 weeks you still want to go trucking. get your cdl and work for someone else till you learn the bizz. and you need to know how to fix that truck you want to buy. and a garage to park it in when you need to repair something. doing it out in the snow is no fun at all. i did pretty much what you want to do 40 yrs ago

[OntarioAl]

What Snowstorm said except after you get your CDL work for a highway carrier first to get some tractor trailer experience under your belt then if    still determined to go log hauling   do as SnowStorm suggests
cheers
Al

[Skeans1]

You might have to find an old log truck driver (semi retired ) etc to show the right way of doing things. About the only way to give you the assistance on a steep learning curve.
Reading that it could be possible that you are being set up as the fall guy.
Log truck drivers who go on to purchase their own trucks usually have years of experience driving log trucks and other trucks before they make the purchase. i.e most people buying log trucks to drive themselves know they like driving log trucks and know the hours they will have to drive to pay the truck costs (tires, diesel, oil, grease, fluids, coolant, tiedown equipment, parts etc)  and the amount of maintenance and wrenching they will have to do themselves to avoid paying a mechanic, to prevent the mechanic taking money out of their pocket too quickly.

Sounds like someone does not want to purchase a company log truck  and put a driver in it who then might have an accident causing problems.

Used Trucks Oregon worth $35 000 Used truck gets engine and frame destroyed to prevent further use.
How will Oregon clean up diesel air pollution? - YouTube    

Rigged. Forced into debt. Worked past exhaustion. Left with nothing. - USA TODAY

This is news to me on the California style requirements and I live in Oregon with trucks.

[Skeans1]

My home is Colorado, and I'm exploring an option presented to me a couple weeks ago about becoming a log truck driver. I would appreciate some seasoned advice/ wisdom from those in the know.
The logs to be hauled, I believe y'all refer to them as "long logs"... some 40 feet long.

The first question I want to ask is about a beginning truck. I've read, perhaps on this site or somewhere else, where those in the know were stating that, "... it needs to be double frame, 6x4 with lockers, no air suspension, at least 13 speed, jake brake, 500+ hp, KW T-800, Western Star, etc..."

I'm on a budget! lol  I would LOVE to have Das Ubber Wagon, but for now I can only dream of buying a truck that specialized.
As for used trucks, I don't seem to see many on the various sites as in the above quote. The ones I do see, seem to be relegated to the auction sites. or are in the $8k- $25K range. Makes me nervous!

I did find two trucks that may work... may be duds... don't know. A T800 with a tri- axle and 6x4, also a Western Star that appears to be a beast. It appeared to have had a "cosmetic head on" with a barrier wall, or another vehicle. I think that one was an insurance write off. Again... makes me nervous!

I just need to know what to plan for sometime after the CDL school. Do I have to sell my soul and buy high end/ new, and be "obliged" to never see my mountain for a few years, or should I settle for just something and hope it lasts long enough to upgrade?

Locally, the only semi trucks I see for sale on a regular basis are very used ranch type hay trucks, or sometimes a long haul rig that just won't make it far on an unimproved, or barely existing 'goat trail'.
I even looked at the trucker to trucker ads. Again, out of my league.

To make things just a little more complex/ high maintenance; I am going to need a sleeper on the rig. I have to admit, and remind myself that I'm not as young as I think I am anymore. These new and annoying aches and prolonged sore muscles remind me at the end of the day that I'm now a new member of AARP.  ...and yes! a built in Jacuzzi Spa tub would be a plus.  ;D

Also, I think I may need a trailer as well. I'm used to the rigs where I grew up in Western Washington. Very basic I-beam looking trailers that seem to hold a lot of logs.

Thanks!

If you plan on having a truck yourself you'll need a long logger or a short logger(mule train) of your own. Have you ever spent time in the business at all? Have you considered coming out to Oregon or Washington to learn the ropes? There's many things that can be learned from loading a truck or from being out in the brush before getting in the air ride seat.

 
This is our long logger with a short logger insert on it called a turkey rack, load of 32, 24, and 16's.

[sawguy21]

When I was young with more ambition than brains, I decided I wanted to become a log truck driver and make good money. I got my learners permit, took the air course and rode shotgun learning the ropes. Up at 3 am, on the landing by 4 depending where we were in the rotation. Home by 4, evenings were spent cleaning and greasing the truck plus fixing air lines and lights. Saturdays were at the truck or tire shop. Then there was chaining up and chaining off three times a day in the mud or snow. I decided this was not for me.
The buddy I worked with is still doing it at 70, he loves it and knows no other way of making a living, but it is taking it's toll. It is hard work with long hours. I second what the others have said, take a few years to learn the business before jumping in with both feet.

[charles mann]

Logging is NOT a 9-5 job. Its a 12,14,16 hr day and depending distance from landing to mill, 1-4, maybe more, loads a day, barring any mill, tck or landing shut downs. There may be times, where you may haul every day for a month, then nothing or maybe 1 load a day for a wk or more, or just that 1 day. 

O/O have bear ALL the expenses, and most are NOT cheap, so know how to maintain your own equipment save 1000 of $s, but obtaining oppropriate tools to maintain isnt cheap either and as mentioned before, a place to work on the equipment is vital too. Iv done field repairs and rolling around in the mud, rocks, ice or snow isnt fun, even with the appropriate tools. Iv went out on a job and bc my lead listened to the driver on his diaognostics, i went out without the right tools for the job, and didnt even have all the right parts. So learning to think outside the box became a must, and has served me well so far. 
As a field mech on a big heli, we have 100s of 1000s of $$$ in tools, and sometimes, not the right tool/s and have to get inventive. Learning to wrench on OTR and stick tcks when i was young, has paid dividends throughout my career. 

As for a tck, most any day cab, but do try to avoid air bagged tcks. A stick will end your day before it starts. 
Mnt logging isnt like it is in the flat lands of the US. I attended a driving course for my current employer and most was in the mnts east of portland or, vancouver wa. Being affraid of heights made it even worse bc of some of the 200-500' cliffs with nothing more than dozed out trail to get to the landings. 
It was fun, but a butt clincher too. 

As others have said, ride shotgun, from pretrip to post trip and see if that is something you truely want to get in to, before dropping $50,000-75,000 on a rig. Of course, that does not include insurance, scheduled and unscheduled maint, fuel, rubber, tie downs, over weight tickets, being shut down bc of that pesky noise that got ignored, but the DOT inspector found the cause and now you have to get a wrecker tow to get it fixed. 

[Skeans1]

We must be odd balls out here but all the trucks I know of running as loggers or even lowboys are air bag truck. All the years we've had the trucks doing thinning work I can't think of one time a stick has gone through an airbag.

[chevytaHOE5674]

More and more log trucks and pup trailers are air ride around here. Not as durable as a spring ride setup but they give you a better ride and better traction in the woods.

[Firewoodjoe]

I would t worry about the suspension. I drive a Chalmers and drive air on a regular basis. Chalmers u just drive. And get stuck and take pain pills.  Air is great but small repairs generally. But in your case there's no way your hauling enough weight to "need" Chalmers. We run out of the woods with lift axles up and 90,000 plus on the steer and drives. Pulling a 5 axle pup. Couple times a year the air ride gives fits.

[USDragoon]

On the subject of "do you really want to..." Honestly, this is something that kinda came from left field and I have been pondering and questioning myself, and looking into the viability of becoming a backwoods mountain truck driver over the past few weeks.

My "logging experience" is rather non existent. Yes, I have plenty of experience in falling trees, trimming off branches, bucking logs, dragging logs, loading and securing, checking and rechecking my loads, especially on washboard roads- mostly for personal firewood use and fence posts. I can go through 10 cords a year, if we ever have another real winter again.

I do have a lot of experience with different types of vehicles in the Colorado back roads and mountains, snow and mud, Ice and deep hail, fog and rain, improved roads and goat trails. Even bush whacking.

I've driven plenty of trucks under 26k GCVW, both in city delivery jobs and in the rugged terrain where I live. I've been licensed in the Army for many types of vehicles, including some in excess of 26K GCVW. I do have experience driving a 5ton combination tractor trailer while in the army as well. I do have a clue what it's like to drive a big truck... just not this type of truck, nor a commercial semi-truck/ trailer, or in this type of situation. Nor do I have the practical job specific experience. Do I want to pursue this?

I do want a CDL- A, if for no other reason than to say I have one, so I can at least have the power to search out and purchase my own hay, transport my building materials and livestock, instead of being dependent on middlemen and opportunists, among other things.

As for being set up for a fall... The person who recommended this notion in my head, was rather surprised when I told him that the only way I would become a truck driver is to be the owner operator. He then suggested, 'I just get a cheap used truck, drive it into the ground before upgrading'. A learning tool truck.
No specifics from him if I would be using a company truck, mentor ship or anything, as all this was rather a sudden outta the blue conversation, as I was already focused on my job at hand.
His dad runs a logging company, and I suppose has done so for a few decades. "Junior", who runs a metal fabrication business, regards his dad as a certain appendage- very difficult to deal with, and he hates people.

I'm selling firewood via an ad on craig's list, and delivering it as well. Junior's son does firewood processing, and I purchase wood for sale from him. This is something I kind of fell into last month, and it's enabled me to finally get out and test myself after my disabled ratings from the VA. I have my 1 ton Dually I just modified with a dump bed, and they have been gracious enough to allow me the use of their dump trailer and an old 1979 International flatbed/ modified as a dump bed. (don't know the model)

The other night I got back to the yard late, had pulled my Jeep up to the hood of that old 1979 International flatbed 2 1/2 ton? to conduct my after operations checks, using my headlights and a flashlight.
When I was finished, I was just starting to leave in my jeep, when up came Sr. blocking my path. I got out of my jeep, as he exited his vehicle, and he was concerned that I was up to no good, messing with his stuff.

After providing proof as to who I was, and what I was up to, he seemed rather surprised I was conducting after operation checks, by the look on his face.
He then informed me that he had a strong dislike of people in general. I think he regarded me as an "un-flushed piece of dookie", all the same.

That didn't deter me from informing him about my looking into acquiring a CDL-A through VA vocational rehab assistance, and my specific interest was looking into working with the logging industry as a truck driver. Furthermore, I asked him if it would be possible to go out with him to his site and seeing what I would be getting myself into.

That's when he informed me he was also a veteran of his 3 tours in Vietnam, and that with the change in seasons, he didn't think it would work for me to go out in the snow. I probably couldn't handle it, he said.

He went on to say that truck drivers were common enough, and the work sporadic. At times there would by 15 trucks lined up waiting for a load, and not that many loads available. He also said that if I could ever get a "grapple boom/ Claw"?, type of rig, that he had an area that needed logs picked up, but he couldn't justify moving his 'XYZ' thingy ma jig? to retrieve the timber at the moment.
He finished by telling me to ensure the gate was closed when I left, and he went.

I would like to experience first hand what was put in my head. Practical wisdom is acquired from personal experience. I think I was shut down by the Sr.. This isn't stopping me from trying to figure out if this is doable or not. I do understand that I may not be able to exclusively just run logs. I may have to be somewhat flexible.

Yes, I'm listening to you guys that have the experience.
Yes, I'd like to "intern" for a few weeks with someone who can teach.
There are other circumstances I'm having to deal with and figure out, that have me kind of "hyper focused" on this path as well.

Kind of like Sr., I don't really like urbanized "civilization" and all that goes with it. I try to avoid it as much as I can. It's safer that way. However, I know that ultimately it's unavoidable as well.
Hell... these days I'm delivering firewood to remote off grid locations and also in urbanized neighborhoods! I do however, limit my days to no more than two delivery's per day. One morning, and one afternoon/ evening.

"If it's from the creator, it will be effortless"  "If a man has enough faith, he can move mountains"

[mike_belben]

Good luck and amen.


If the old man is really in the logging business then he probably gave you the best advice youll get from him. Theres plenty of trucks and log trailers, but there is no one around with a self loader for the occasional job that doesnt justify setting up the big gear.

So youre looking for a tandem axle straight truck with bunks and a crane on board run by pto. You also need enough frame after the axles for a pintle hitch. I suggest you get your A with airbrake and combination and put a self loader on back, then find a pintle hitch backhoe trailer and put bunks on that too. Its a very versatile setup that would allow you to pick up retrieval work from loggers, landclearers and tree services, not just be trapped in one market through its rainy season.  The longer the "stinger" on back of the truck (length of frame between axle and hitch) the more maneuverable to truck and trailer combo will be in tight spaces.   You wont have to think much about the trailer when going forward, itll track in the trucks path and will back into spaces with less swinging of the truck around.  A short tractor and long trailer needs a bunch of swing room for the power unit to get the trailer turned sharp enough.  

Prentice, hiab, hood, barko, crane and knuckleboom are good search terms.  

Can you drive a roadranger?  Is your left knee pretty strong?  A run it to the ground cheap truck is basically an old mack with camelback suspension, or an IH or L9000 on walking beams or neway bags.. Maybe even leafs.  A vocational truck basically.  Slow, harsh and tough.  Little demand these days. Even less if its on dayton spoke wheels or budds.  Cheap and simple.

Dont even consider a single axle or a 5speed trans with single speed rear.  Low power is acceptable but it needs to run through many gears.  13, 15 or 8LL, 9LL.  5x2 etc. Cummins 6BT, navistar 466 and 7.3 are too small.  An 6CT or ford 7.8 are the smallest engines that might live with an easy operator and lots of gears if not too steep.  I think its a 300hp min and stay off the interstate either way.  Little guys cant afford to log and pay the DOT toll.  If DOT is bad in your area this rig would need to be snuck around cuz theyll murder it.  Better to not even jump in the game.  Get your license and hire on to someone elses equipment.  Let them worry about tickets and out of service tows/impounds. 

This rig would fit in your firewood business very well and also facilitate you going into your own one man logging/land clearing/dirtwork show.  Just add skidder/dozer/crawler loader/skid steer/tractor/backhoe to suit local needs.  

[snowstorm]

nothing wrong with dayton wheels. they are stronger than buds. small power and no jake are the last thing you want in the mountains

[barbender]

My opinion- log trucks aren't for newbies, it's a real tough place to learn the ropes and the odds will be against you being successful. However, I've seen a few people that were successful at different things because they didn't know any better, and they end up doing things a bit differently because of it. Good luck to you of you decide to go for it.

[sawguy21]

 :D That reminds me of Will Rogers "I was too ignorant to know it could not be done so I went ahead and did it". Yes it can be done, I have known those who have but as you say the deck is stacked against them. To USDragoon, if that is what you want follow your dream and all the best.

[Corley5]

  A friend just lost an engine in a Michigan Truck.  $30,000 to replace and just a couple days before that one of the drives went out.  All on a truck that he's got a buyer lined up for on January 2nd.

[barbender]

And that $30K for an engine is on the low side these days!

[USDragoon]

Thanks for the advice and the warnings from all!
I am going to go ahead and knock out my CDL-A, possibly starting in the spring when Firewood sales start to slow down.
I've been really busy lately having moved some four long log trucks worth of wood in a month an a half, working those long hours of 12-16, and having had to apply my chains a few times all ready! (May we get more snow!)

I found a school in Denver that seems like a good fit, with 1/1 driver training and service dog friendly by choice instead of mandate.

Where I go from there? Perhaps I should heed the advice given, and "suck it up" with an OTR carrier for a bit and perhaps a short internship with one of you experienced types in the Pacific NW for some reality checks.

Best Regards and Thank You!