buying 1st saw mill(?)

[JP Wazz]

longtime member, infrequent viewer/poster, recently retired so now i have time. i am considering buying a smallish saw mill for my own use, does anyone own an electric powered saw mill? i know several manufacturers sell them but i have never seen one in use. i already have solar on my roof so why not use it up? 

[WV Sawmiller]

  Are you talking an electric motor or battery powered?  If you just want to run a mill with an electric motor that would be no problem and that is an option on many mills. I don't know how much electricity you generate with solar and I'm thinking most mills require 220 if not three phase power but I'm thinking of larger mills so check with the dealers.

  The only battery powered one I have seen is the WM LT 15 that I saw at the Paul Bunyan show back in October. (Disclaimer: I am not a big fan of electric so don't let me sway you.) What I saw looked pretty good. It had up to 6 battery packs IIRC and they said they were recharging them in the hotel room every night but I don't think they were running them flat just doing short demos. If you're a fan of electric/battery I'd investigate them. WM has a great rep and I love my gas powered LT35. From what I saw you'd be looking at a manual mill as I can't see adding hydraulics to electric mills/battery powered mills but could with an electric motor powered mill. Most small mills don't have hydraulics anyway (but I love mine).

  What kind of logs will you be sawing and how many bf per day are you contemplating?

  Good luck.

[rusticretreater]

The WM LT 15 has three electric motor options 230V 1 phase, 230V 3 phase, 460V 3phase.  So the demo version was specially set up to run on the batteries and not really what you can purchase.

There is only one motor available, a 10hp.  Torque is HP x 5252 / rpm.  So 10HP x 5252/ 1800 rpm = 29.1 ft lbs.    By contrast, a 15hp Kohler Command Pro engine produces 33.6 ft lbs.  So it sounds a bit underpowered.  But I don't know the wattage of the motor which could make a big difference in the torque number.

Not only do you have to set up the mill, you have to provide the electrical hookup and weather protection too.  Convenient, but also sounds pretty expensive. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Rustic,

   I beg to differ (Defer?) but the battery powered LT 15 is a standard offering now and was not a special demo model.

https://woodmizer.com/store/Shop/Portable-Sawmills/LT15WIDE-Battery-Portable-Sawmill

[B.C.C. Lapp]

JP what is it about an electric powered mill that attracts you?    Seems to me a small mill for your own use would be more convenient with a standard gas motor.

[rusticretreater]

Rustic,

  I beg to differ (Defer?) but the battery powered LT 15 is a standard offering now and was not a special demo model.

Oh, I did a quick search for LT 15 and didn't see the battery powered option.  Thanks for the correction...I think.  Funny, I had seen this before.  Just didn't remember.

Egads at that price, I would just buy more mill and save the battery expense.  5 year warranty on the batteries.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I agree on the price. I paid less than that for my entire mill with hydraulics 8 years ago.

[DanielW]

I think you'd be sucking up a lot of your solar battery bank reserve running an electric mill for any time period, but that depends on your solar setup.

As far as the milling itself goes: Lots of options. Many manufactures offer 220V single and three-phase options. And loads of folks have converted standard gas mills to electric with 3600 electric RPM motors put in place of the original gasser. Some run three-phase motors off single-phase power by using a VFD, which also allows them to tweak the speeds. You can often get by with almost half the HP with an electric motor as you need with a gas. In theory if both are running at their intended RPM range they should be equivalent, but the power/torque curve on gas motors (especially small engines) is such that they drop off pretty substantially as soon as they start to bog down even a little, whereas an electric motor has linear power curve right from zero, so it'll pretty much always pull through. Plus the ratings for electric motor current/power are for their continuous duty-cycle, running right up near their continuous stall torque. Their peak/momentary stall torque is way higher, so when they reach a tough spot they can just pull a lot more amps/power for a second or two and power through it. It also doesn't help the case of gassers that the J-1940 requirements for rating the HP of small, spark-ignition engines are pretty liberal in what they allow manufacturers to get away with. Chance are if you put a brand-new 25 HP small engine on a dyno, you'd find it's only making about 80-90% of the rated power (at most).

It's especially noticeable for circular mills: Electric is the cat's meow. For instance: A lot of circular scragg & sharp-chain setups are run with dual 75 HP electric on the heads with feed speeds in the 300 FPM range and run just dandy. Back in the day the same setup at those speeds would have used dual 125-150 HP Detroit or Cat diesels to get the same kind of performance. The only thing with better/more consistent torque than electric is if you get a chance to run an old circular rig off a steam traction engine with a massive flywheel. A 30 HP steam traction engine can run an headsaw smoother than a 70 HP diesel.

Not that it makes as much of a difference for a band mill, but I suspect you'll still do almost as well with a 10 HP electric as you would with a 20 HP gas.

The best part of electric in my opinion is the noise (or lack thereof). When you're used to running a headsaw with a big-ol' 2-stroke Detroit screaming across the county, turning diesel into noise and smoke, it's quite a shock to run an electric rig where you can talk to a guy standing beside you in a normal voice and actually hear what the saws are doing.

[JP Wazz]

not batteries. electric is easy and no spills, fumes, hazardous storage etc. and quiet. i have power already to where the saw would be. hud-son homesteader 21"has an electric option. there are other small mills with electric option but i absolutely prefer american made when i can get it.

[SawyerTed]

If the plan is to set up as a stationary mill, I believe electric would be the way to go, not battery powered but electric.  With electric there's no big hit later on for replacement batteries on the mill. 

If batteries are part of the picture, integrate them into the photovoltaic power system you already have. Better to have the batteries for general power usage than dedicated solely to a mill.  Proprietary batteries on the mill will be harder to tie back to the photovoltaic system. 

If you are grid tied with the solar AND have excess (selling back to the power company) I'm with you, use it rather than sell it.  That's especially true if you are on TOU discounted rate for your excess  power.  Better use what you make than sell it/accept credits at less than 1:1.

[JP Wazz]

to clarify, i know that batteries are electricity, but yes stationery mill for my own sawing needs. the solar installer sized the system correctly and i do sell back excess generation to my utility. what wood? i have ash, red oak, cedar(juniper) and some cherry available. 

[Ljohnsaw]

Where are you? Please update your profile!

[barbender]

 If you have a hybrid electric system with battery storage and is also grid tied, I could see an electric powered mill making good use of excess power before it starts feeding back into the grid, especially if they're not paying a good rate. Let the battery bank charge for a day, hit the mill early in the morning and draw the bank down. Then let it charge all day, repeat next morning.

 I know next to nothing about home battery banks and how much juice they store, and how much you lose converting DC to AC to run a say 10 hp electric motor. An interesting concept though.

 I think Woodmizer offers the LT 15 with an electric motor, and I think there was one available on the discontinued (I think) LT10.

 

[Ianab]

If you have the power available and don't need to be portable, then there is no real downside to an electric mill. Don't worry about the lower HP rating, because of the way the torque curves work out, a 10hp electric will perform more like a 20 hp gas engine, or a 15 hp diesel. Reason is that if you load them up (hitting a knot in the log etc) and it tries to slow the motor, it's torque goes up, so it's still able to power though the cut. Where a gas engine will lose torque, slow down even more, and you get a wavy cut. 

Pluses are much lower maintenance and operating costs, especially if you are generating much of the power yourself. 

All the grid tied solar will do is continue to reduce your power bill. Even without the solar, electric still makes sense. IC motors are of course still popular, because portability, and not everyone has the mains supply to run a large electric machine. 

[JP Wazz]

the hud-son "oscar 428" with electric motor is now in the pole barn waiting for me to fabricate a good sturdy base so i can situate the machine somewhere shady. given the demands of being a husband, father, grandfather etc. it should be up and running by september.

[East ky logging]

Congratulations on the new mill. What horsepower motor did you go with?

[47sawdust]

No need to rush it,the gas won't go bad.