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Logging truck

Started by Busysawyer, July 08, 2018, 10:56:06 AM

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Busysawyer

We are considering buying a small truck to haul logs. We are new to this but have already made a few deals and are quickly realising how expensive it is to hire a truck. Not looking to spend a bunch of cash at this point but need something to haul with 2 or 3 times a month.i wanted to get some opinions on options. We are looking at something like this. What do you guys think? Thanks

 

 
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

barbender

There's a reason it's expensive to hire a truck.
Too many irons in the fire

Busysawyer

Barbender. There are lots of reasons why its expensive to hire a truck.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Dave Shepard

It's about $60/1000 International here for trucking. It would take a long time to pay that truck off, plus the added expenses plus you aren't running the mill if you are trucking. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

sawguy21

That is a lot of money tied up in a piece of equipment that will get used infrequently. Then there is licence, insurance, maintenance to consider pllus the driver(s) need for a cdl. I can't see making it pay.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Southside

Owning a truck gets more expensive every year, using it two or three times a month is a guaranteed way to loose money.  One DOT ticket or significant break down and you could be looking at loosing a LOT of money.  Older log trucks are DOT magnets.  Focus on finding ways to increase your profit margin at the mill to off set the cost of trucking.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Corley5

Owning a log truck is expensive.  Insurance, plates, tires, lights, brakes, inspections, fuel, etc. to haul two or three loads a month....  Hire trucking :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Busysawyer

I appreciate the feedback. I have a driver that would be driving for free. My uncle is a retired driver but still maintains his licensing and runs a load here and there. Unfortunately he sold his truck a couple years ago when he retired.  So driver is free, he is the one that suggested getting a truck and he would make runs for us. We are just getting started and in our first month we will have paid a company 1400 dollars for trucking. We have 1200 acres we will start select cutting this fall and the trucking cost will grow a lot. I have already talked to two logging crews and think I have decided which one to go with. At the rate we are going i wouldn't think it would take long at all to pay for a 20,000 dollar truck. 
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Corley5

It's not the $20,000.00 initial investment it's the costs to put it on and keep it on the road.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Dave Shepard

That's a different scenario from two or three times a month. It's still probably cheaper to hire, as long as you can get reliable trucking. How much is it going to cost to get that truck ready for inspection? To keep tires on it? Fuel? This may be off, only you can tell, but I'm going to guess that truck might cost you $40,000 in the first year. That's purchase price,  tax, title,  registration, insurance, fuel and whatever else it might need fo stay legit. That may not be an issue if you spread that over say five years of reliable service. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Busysawyer

Corley, I realise that . We have friends of the family that have been in this business since the 70s . My friend has a large railroad salvage company and spent 400,000k on his last truck.  He went from about nothing to over 6 million in equipment in 25 years. I'm kind of surprised at the opinions I'm getting on here. Every one local I talk to tells me freight is what kills you and a truck should be priority number 1 for me. I realise I am new but I know people that have started where I'm at and now have multiple trucks , mills and their own logging crews. These guys are the ones guiding me.  Introducing me to their connections in the industry. These are the footsteps I am trying to follow. I have big aspirations and even bigger dreams. That truck I posted on here was sent to me by a family friend that has been in business for 35 years, owns multiple mills, trucks and logging crews. He thought it would be a good place for us to start. I was hoping to get some different opinions on types of trucks and other options here. I respect all of your opinions and I definitely see your point of view. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not a matter of if we are getting a truck it's what kind of truck and how much to spend.  
Dave two or three times a month is what we need right now in our infancy. We have big plans for the future and are being pushed to grow rapidly on mutiple fronts.  The exact words that were told to me was the door is wide open and I'm gonna kick your but right through it and make sure you hit the ground running. When we started I wanted to have a nice little retail place and become a yellowhammer but the people I know are really pushing me the other way towards the wholesale production market. I have a lunch meeting on Thursday with a mill owner from up north that heard about us from a wholesale buyer. He has been in business for 20 years and wants to talk to me about investing in our business. His exact words were I would kill for your location and he has been looking at property in this area to setup a second operation. These aren't woodmizer types of guys these are send out 5 or 6 semi load a day kind of guys. Wether I like it or not I've been thrust into this industry and am being pushed from every direction.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

mike_belben

A mill without logs might as well be shut down a few days for the sawyer to go put on his loggin britches.  If you ever hire help youll need to provide them a job every day.  An unplanned 5 day shutdown will ensure they find more stable employment. So i think part time sawing and part time logging to keep your full timers around is wise practice.  The 135yr old handle mill here just closed for lack of laborers.  Once you got guys ya gotta keep em or youll close too. 
   

If youre lumber is selling then you already know the market will bare the cost. If you are selling out of lumber faster than you can bring in logs, considering raising the lumber price a hair to cover offering good money to redirect logs your way and keep it flowing.


a log truck and a dumptruck will have a problem of some sort every other day or so much of the time.  If you can handle that, have at it.  I suppose it doesnt matter if the 20k truck ends up costing you 40, as long as it brings in 70. Guy i weld for shells out 10k a month in fuel, and thats a lot less than his payroll.  Dont think numbers, think cashflow.  You can live a long time with the numbers all wrong.  You shrivel up and die when the cashflow quits.  If sawdust is your cashflow, keep it flying and worry about numbers later. 
Praise The Lord

Corley5

The big hardwood mills up here have their own trucks but contract most of their hauling or the logging contractors have their own.  A local veneer mill sold their trucks and now contracts all hauling including finished product.  It was a better arrangement for them.  If you're going that big you'll need more trucking than that little Mack.  It's what works for you.  When I was logging having my own truck was the last thing I wanted to deal with.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Bruno of NH

Look into some thing like this 
My friend hall's this with a 6 wheeler an international dump.

 

 
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Autocar

Here is my opinion moving equipment hauling logs it is nice to get it done when YOU want it done. I will never regret getting my own truck everyone is right there exspensive to own but the freedom it gives me to do what ever when ever I am ready to do it is priceless .
Bill

mike_belben

Im with autocar.  I cant schedule anything, ever.  If i do i will just miss the schedule.  We get there when we get there lifestyle dictates you must own all your own stuff in order to do anything at all.  
Praise The Lord

barbender

I'd say, if you're looking at a truck because you need the freedom to move something when and where you want it and you don't have reliable trucking, that's one thing. If you are getting into trucking because of how much it's costing you and you want to save money, I think you'll have a rude awakening in a short period of time. Every region is different, up here there are tons of owner/operators coming and going from the wood hauling industry every year. There's all these guys that want to be their own boss and make a million, they soon discover it's not that easy. They start having a hard time making payments, etc. It keeps the trucking very competitive. I've thought about starting a one man logging crew before, and I would probably get a small truck like you had pictured. Not to save money though. For cleaning up jobs, delivering small loads of firewood and such. The bulk of the trucking would be hired because I couldn't do it as cheap myself.
Too many irons in the fire

mike_belben

All good points.  

I am doing taxes right now between mom duty.  Few years back i bought a 2ton truck because my dodge dually was worn out, too small, didnt have enough brakes, tires were always overloaded.. etc etc. I paid $3,000.  It had a 466, a manual trans, crew cab and a sleeper, was under CDL..  It all looked great on paper.  

Im depreciating $17,832 of real money, every penny spent on putting it into service.  And $3,006 for the first year of operation.   Dont even ask me how it happened. Motors, trannies and every wear item on the thing will nickel and dime you to death.  In 2016 all i did was fix that truck.  

Thankfully its hasnt given me a lick of grief the last 2 years.  But thats the math on old heavy equipment.  Pay now or pay later. 
Praise The Lord

Corley5

General rules of thumb for an owner/operator of a Michigan Log Truck is 5 days for the truck, one day for yourself and if what you're doing doesn't equate to $100.00 an hour you're losing $$$. 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Dave Shepard

You reveal more with each post. I still contend that you will make your money at the mill, not in the truck. Your uncle is retired. How long is he going to run that truck before he wants to retire again, or get a paycheck? I can see owning the truck if you can't get your logs moved on time, that's a real problem. You are hiring the logging, so you aren't moving equipment. The way I lookat it is trucking costs me $0.06 per foot whether it's 5,000 feet or 500,000 feet. Plug it into the sawing costs and leave the headaches to someone else. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Busysawyer

I really do appreciate all of the advice . When my dad and I decided to get a mill I had no idea what it would lead too. I imagined a slow start with nothing coming in for awhile.  We had that attitude of trying to do a small retail business that would hopefully slowly grow. We aren't financing anything and we had a set amount that we were willing to risk and if we hit that without money coming in we would sell the equipment and take a hit. I was told by someone in the industry that during the last recession a lot of big places shut and now business is booming again and there is a gap that needs to be filled opening the door for smaller mills to fill the void. The wholesalers I've been talking to and selling to say the same thing, bring it in as fast as you can. When I ask about limitations on quantity they laugh and say your little lt70 isn't capable of producing anywhere near the amount we are looking to buy. They also say this is the slow season for them and they pickup more steam in the fall. I dont know a lot of guys just a couple big ones so I don't know how it's normally done but they way they tell me to make money is to cut out as many middle men as possible. They have their own timber buyers, logging crews, trucks , mills , kilns. The one place that has been lighting a fire under my but has 8 full time timber buyers that cruise the state buying up as much timber as they can.  The stuff I'm working on is the scraps they leave in their wake. Tuesday I'm going to sign a contract to buy 12 large beautiful walnut trees from a guy that couldn't even get a buyer to come out and look at them . He said he called a hslf dozen places and no one will come out because he only has 8 acres and they didn't have time. One place told him they were 2 months out to set an appointment to look at his timber. Everyone I know is swamped with work over here. Concrete, plumbers, electricians, builders they are all swamped. I used to build houses and then owned a small commercial construction company and this reminds me of how things were before the crash that put me out of business back in 2008. I have a close friend that has a good sized concrete company and we recently had a discussion about this . He is worried and I am worried that we can't sustain like this. He made it through the recession but it cost him a ton of money. He says he has his guys running trucks 60 hours a week and is booked for months. He said in his 20 years the only time he has seen it like this is before the collapse.  I've has so many conversations with people that my head is spinning on which way to go. I have the cliche sayings running through my head. Don't get to big for your britches, what goes up must come down , make hay while the sun is shining, strike while the iron is hot. Part of me says to says to jump in and capitalize while the getting is good and the other part of me is scared that I won't have time to get the return on the investment before the market crashes again. I don't know what's going on in other parts of the country but around here it's crazy right now. I live just outside west Michigan's largest city in what used to be a small farming town a few short years ago and now we have a large outlet mall. Farms and forests are being converted to shopping centers and housing developments at an alarming rate and it scares me. I'm only 40 years old and far from an expert on the economy but from what I've seen in my short life around this area I'm worried about 5 years from now or maybe less. Sorry for the long post I just have so much going through my brain it just kept coming out
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Busysawyer

Guys part of the problem I'm having is finding the trucking and what I have found has been higher than I anticipated.  I've called all the independents that the people I know have referred to me, I've called at least a dozen places i found through Google. I get either we don't haul logs, we are too busy , or I could probably get to it in a couple weeks. I found three guys that could do it and all the prices are around the same. 700 dollars to haul 1 load that is 61 miles from here. I tell friends with trucking connections and they say it's way high and give me a guy to call. I call these guys and it's the same story, love to help you out but don't have the time call me back in a few weeks.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

Dave Shepard

Another post, another critical detail.  :D If you can't get the logs trucked on time, then you are over a barrel. One trucker I use is $250 a load for tri axle, the other is $200 for the first hour, then $100 for every hour after. $700/load, even at 61 miles sounds steep. What size truck? 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

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