building with green oak

board · March 25, 2013, 06:01:37 PM

Had a customer call today and he is building a cabin. He wants to do his ceiling in oak,about 750 sq. ft. He said he wants it to look rustic like barn board. I told him the oak is still green. My question is there anyway to install that with minimal gaps showing up when it shrinks.

beenthere · March 25, 2013, 06:05:43 PM

Ship-lap it would be one way.

MEMountainMan · March 25, 2013, 06:26:00 PM

Board and batten is the only thing I can think of. Pin/nail the center of the wide boards to allow for shrinkage.

board · March 25, 2013, 06:31:46 PM

thanks for your quick response. He doesn't want a t&g look so maybe the board & batten would be the way to go.

clww · March 25, 2013, 06:32:48 PM

On the ceiling?

millwright · March 25, 2013, 06:33:24 PM

I've put up green ash for a ceilingand shiplaped it with no problems.

drobertson · March 25, 2013, 06:47:58 PM

My only question is did he ask your opinion? I have found that many folks want what they want. Give it to them, why are we sawyers seemily responsible for everything our custormers want? As soon as a mention is made we are somehow responsible for the out come, just saying, I have dealt with more of this than can be counted. What do they want? Give it to them, with maximum output, minimal waste, unless they ask, david

WH_Conley · March 25, 2013, 06:54:25 PM

Maybe reverse board and batten. That would give the rustic look without being able to see whatever is above.

drobertson · March 25, 2013, 07:02:04 PM

Maybe lay felt paper first, then the boards,

clww · March 25, 2013, 07:06:20 PM

I'm using pine on the interior walls of our cabin, installing this as B&B. I'm going to use the same wood on the ceiling, but it will go up as shiplap.

board · March 25, 2013, 07:50:15 PM

drobertson,no he really didn't ask for my opinion,maybe I should just keep my mouth shut and give him what he wants.

drobertson · March 25, 2013, 08:02:17 PM

b, I am in the same boat brother, we all want to give the best! no ill intentions meant, there are many techniques, and many are done without all the details, just saying, I have commented one too many times, only to find out that no idea on how to do a job is obvious. Then the wheels are turning, tricky stuff for getting return custormers, I hope all goes well, just mention the shrink factor, as you have, I suppose, and let things fall where they may, david. Building design is a totally different bussiness,

Jay C. White Cloud · March 25, 2013, 08:06:12 PM

Hi Board,

I,m with David, (drobertson) if someone doesn't ask me directly I just give them what they want. I may ask if they need help or guidance, but if they show now interest, I leave them to it. In this case, for my own education I would probably ask what his plans are, just because I love working with green wood and if somebody plans on a "green wood" project I get excited.

As far as for your own knowledge on it, ship lab is a very good way to do it, either Rabbited or oblique sawn ship lap (bevel edging.) The other is a B&B method, but in the case of a ceiling it is called "dust boarding," and there are several methods, depending on the application.

Regards,

jay

board · March 25, 2013, 08:54:22 PM

Thanks Jay . The only thing I told him was that it was fresh cut oak and he told me he was going to use it on his ceiling. Maybe I will tell him there might be some shrinkage and leave it at that. I wish they wouldn't tell me what they are going to use it for.

Magicman · March 25, 2013, 09:16:53 PM

I also try to stay out of the asking business which keeps me out of the advising business. Asking and advising has a way of shifting the responsibility of the the lumber's reaction from the customer to me.

Now, if the customer tells me that he intends to do something that I know to be foolish, then I have a responsibility to point out the error and suggest otherwise. The final decision always rest upon the customer.

In actuality, this situation would very seldom come up and would never end with a dissatisfied customer.

Tree Feller · March 25, 2013, 09:23:47 PM

I can't help but think about how heavy that green oak will be putting it up overhead.

Jay C. White Cloud · March 25, 2013, 09:29:38 PM

I'm with you on this one Tree Feller. If he doesn't plan on laying it on top of joist or tie beams, but nailing it over head, he is in for a work out and maybe not what he expected looks wise either. In old barns and buildings, they would have set it on something, not tried to nail it over head. Seldom do you see that application, except maybe in a flour mill or granary, then it would be t&G or double layered.

rambo · March 25, 2013, 09:34:32 PM

I have found it is best to saw and keep my mouth shut. I usually just say " hey its whatever pleases your eyes". ;)

jd_odell · March 26, 2013, 01:23:36 AM

Quote from: Magicman on March 25, 2013, 09:16:53 PM
I also try to stay out of the asking business which keeps me out of the advising business. Asking and advising has a way of shifting the responsibility of the the lumber's reaction from the customer to me.

Now, if the customer tells me that he intends to do something that I know to be foolish, then I have a responsibility to point out the error and suggest otherwise. The final decision always rest upon the customer.

In actuality, this situation would very seldom come up and would never end with a dissatisfied customer.

Amen Brother

rooster 58 · March 26, 2013, 07:56:19 AM

I can't help but think what a "pain in the neck" it would be to clean something like that :

orion388 · March 26, 2013, 08:36:25 AM

Quote from: Magicman on March 25, 2013, 09:16:53 PM
I also try to stay out of the asking business which keeps me out of the advising business. Asking and advising has a way of shifting the responsibility of the the lumber's reaction from the customer to me.

Now, if the customer tells me that he intends to do something that I know to be foolish, then I have a responsibility to point out the error and suggest otherwise. The final decision always rest upon the customer.

In actuality, this situation would very seldom come up and would never end with a dissatisfied customer.

that is some profound advice.. Thank you!

dboyt · March 26, 2013, 01:26:18 PM

Generally, I just provide them with the information about how much to expect the wood to shrink, and let them decide how to deal with it. There is a lot of wrong information floating around (such as "It won't shrink if I varnish it". I'm sure most of the people on the forum have had customers want boards milled 1" thick, expecting to have 1" thick, dry, surfaced lumber to work with when they're ready to use it. There is a fine line between giving the customer too much advice and telling him what he needs to know.

francismilker · March 26, 2013, 04:25:18 PM

I once had a guy come to me with some post oak to be sawn into 1x's of whatever width I could get for him to cover the side boards of his covered wagon. I asked him how long he intended to let it dry. He said he wasn't going to let it dry at all.

I ended up selling him more lumber a month later when the boards warped and popped the head off the screws he'd used.

He then asked me how long I thought he ought to let it dry!!!!

beenthere · March 26, 2013, 06:31:07 PM

Quotewhen the boards warped and popped the head off the screws he'd used

Really? ??? :

drobertson · March 26, 2013, 06:43:10 PM

I have turned down many times my better judgment on what I believe someone is intending on doing with green lumber, I will ask if they have success with this or that type of practice, which almost always gets into the "well what would you suggest?" Which leads to "expect movement, how much is unknown, but if it moves, will it take away from the expected results?" Everyone has differing building techniques, some come from experience, some comes from advice with no experience, only asperations of what they believe to be reasonable. Experience is the best teacher, if one has the apptitude to learn from it, david