Any pics of your sawmill lumber house ???

eddiebo · November 14, 2012, 03:50:15 PM

Hey guys and girls. Would you please post pics of your owner built homes, and cabins? My wife and I are building our own home using our band sawmill to cut the lumber, and would like to see your prideful builds. We are leaning toward board on board siding, and first cut slabs on the front to give the log home look. Please help by posting pics. Here is a start to our little house on the prarie build.

30x40 on lower level, and 16x40 on upper is the plan, with post concreted in cement every 10 feet. We are building walls between the 10ft uprights.

5quarter · November 16, 2012, 05:20:59 PM

Eddiebo...Looks like a great project. hopefully you'll record your progress here so all of us can share the experience with you. Off the top of my head, members LJMathias and Kelvin both documented their home builds here, but there are many more. remember that all great things have humble beginnings. You've made an excellent start.

Jay C. White Cloud · November 19, 2012, 12:43:54 AM

Even'n Eddiebo,

I looked at what I had, does this help? It is a little timber frame/post and beam project from back in the day. This is often called "Adirondack," siding.

This is a "piece sur piece," style of "slabbing work.

grweldon · November 19, 2012, 08:34:24 AM

Jay, I love the siding in the first picture. How is it made? What sort of finish is on it? I really like the golden brown color!

I do not like the foam insulation showing through the gaps in the slabs on the second picture. It also doesn't seem like it would be very durable weather-wise...

Thanks for the pictures!

thecfarm · November 19, 2012, 08:44:13 AM

I bet he chinked the gaps with something. I would like to see an after picture of it.
Really like the chimmey. I thought at a quick glace it started on the second floor. ;D Did you do the stone work for it too? Like the bell too. looks like you have a rope for it too.

bigshow · November 19, 2012, 10:13:36 AM

Real wood siding? not a fan. Its being done infinitely better in the factory these days.

I just completed my TimberFrame house, EWP rough sawn board on board. What a pain. If your not nailing into studs, I'd dump OSB sheathing and do either 3/4 ply or two layers of 1/2" ply and screws only. Horizontal siding at least will spare you upgrading sheathing since studs are available. So, the stain, screws, and upgraded sheathing (if your doing vertical siding) will now run you 2-4x what an awesome product like LP SmartSide would cost.

So, great you've went and and done wood siding, now the trimwork/flashing is 10x the amount of work around windows and everywhere else, particularily due to the thickness of rough sawn and board on board (or board on batten for that matter). And the added expense and time of creating a drainage/breathing plane for the wood siding. I would never, ever do it again. Cant wait until I can pull all this off and put on SmartSide. I'd keep the cedar shakes though.

If you've got 200-400% the budget and 10x the time, wood is fantastic.

grweldon · November 19, 2012, 11:24:58 AM

Bigshow, Many times it's not about what's easiest or cost-effective. I'm sorry you have had such difficulty with your choice of home siding. I have no idea or understanding of why you would want to pull what you have off and replace it with anything! It looks great!

You might want to take things one step further, have somebody else build your home for you. Not nearly as much labor, but as you say, 200-400% more dollars! Lots less hassle though, at least initially until you find out that nobody (and I mean nobody) really will pay attention to construction details like you will. Then you will be annoyed that you had a contractor do it.

My advice to you would be... step back, take a breath, take a good look at what you have done and say, "Wow, that was a lot of work. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do it that way again, but man, oh man, it sure looks great!" ;)

When you are milling your own siding, the cost factor goes down quite a bit. I've got relatively little money and what I spent on a mill I hope to gain back over the years of ownership by NOT having to purchase lumber, since I have many acres of trees available to me.

Did you mill your own siding or shingles?

eddiebo · November 19, 2012, 11:01:49 PM

J.C White Cloud you are killing me!!!! ;D If I wasn't torn between the two siding choices before, I am now sooooooo undecided. I did the lap siding on my wife's little store, but would like more info on the natural edge hand hewned look in the second picture you posted. What do you fill in between the slabs with, and how thick do you mill the slabs?

I plan to use 1/2 inch Pine instead of Cedar if I go with the lap siding. I have the Pine available, and can saw wider slabs

Jay C. White Cloud · November 20, 2012, 04:07:27 AM

Hello Everyone,

I will try and go in order of questions/comment. Let me know if I missed anything? I'm at a frame raising/jointing party and still a little "whipped," from the day.

Hi GrWeldon,

The "Adirondack" or "Wave" siding has been around for centuries. It is supper simple, fast and inexpensive in most areas with mobile sawyers. You put a log on the old mill and Fletch that baby out. I like to keep the Fletch 5/4 + if I can and put them on as they came off the log if possible or at least in proximity to each other.

I use only natural treatments for all my wood products 99.9% of the time. For the last 20 years that has been "Land Ark." Wood does not like paint or plastic finishes too much and will shed the stuff off in "short order. Drive through any neighborhood and you will see pealing paint, and forget polys, they last maybe a month to a year before you start wanting to strip it off, which is a pain in the butt.

The slabs have air venting behind them and got chinked like "Thecfarm," suggested ;D

Hey Thecfarm,

No buddy, a friend of my that I taught stone carving, (it's his house,) did most of the stone work. The bell sounded great. By and by, this is the second house!!! The first one caught an arson's attention and was burnt to the ground one week after completion :(

Bigshow,

I don't know what to say first, :

, too much to comment on in you post. I would have to challenge you on most of it as, "just plane not true," sorry about that. Let me validate my position, to be clear. I'm a traditional timber wright and designer with over thirty plus years experience, (by the way Grweldon, ;) :D I do work for my clients they same as I do for my family, but I agree that is rare these days. I give thanks to my Amish barn wright teachers and elders for instilling in me a sense of honor in my work.)

I just removed both vertical and horizontal siding in hemlock and white pine that was "sash sawn," in 1758 off a barn in New Hampshire this past summer. It was in "mint" condition and now is cabinet and flooring wood in someones "barn to home," conversion. That is the last, in a lifetime of stories that counters just about everything you said regarding wood siding. If folks are going to use wood siding, they need to know how to respect the material and treat it accordingly. If they do, it will last for centuries, (literally centuries,) with little more than a "smile as you walk by," for maintenance. I've seen wood in Asia that is over a thousand years old, and the only thing on it is the "Great Creators," blessing and the master craftsmen applied skill.

As for manufactured siding? Well, lets see, first there was "aluminum," it was going to be the last siding you ever bought, then there was "vinyl," and it claimed the same thing. Neither worked out very good, and I have seen more of it in land fills than on happy homes. The manufacturers got rich though, Ya'y for them. >:( Now we have "cement," board, which I have seen replace on several jobs because of spaulding/delamination, and mold/staining issues. So no thanks to all the manufactured products. I will take wood, slate, clay, lime plaster etc. to any of the "modern" day stuff I see coming out of the "big box," DYI stores, you are welcome to it. Your pricing is not even close to reality, traditional wood siding is way less expensive than any of the manufactured products, that is just a fact anyone can check.

Hi Ho Eddiebo,

The big slab work was 70 mm (aprox. 3") thick and jointed into the verticals. Ben was going to use a natural lime or "wattle" chinking until his Dad insisted on a synthetic chink, which is holding up o.k other that some "pull away" issues, which are a pain and harder to deal with than you find in traditional methods. He covered the walls on the inside the same way, so the walls are over 300 mm (12") thick. He chinked the inside with a cellulose type chinking that also insulates. The walls, have over R 28 in them and that is not even taking into consideration the "thermal mass" qualities of the home. Heating and cooling was a so easy. Radiant floor in the kitchen virtually heated the whole house so well they left doors open in January. We laid gravel, packed it, stone, sills, done! Then laid sand, radiant tubing, more sand, salvaged brick in a herringbone pattern, "Voilà!" vintage kitchen floor; simple, easy to maintain, alter/up grade and repair.

Regard and Peace to all,

Jay

bigshow · November 25, 2012, 11:31:11 AM

Mr. White Cloud,

1st, your posts are probably some of the best on this board, I wish you would have been here years past. I would also like to see much more of your projects.

Anyways, there are factors that shape my opinion. I suppose if you're cash only and never have to deal with banks or an appraiser you can get away doing whatever you want, otherwise a character may never get ahead or at least tread water outside of using modern siding (along with everything else that is currently mainstream).

I am in one of the hottest construction markets (never really a slow down here, never a drop in housing prices) where timberframing and anything like it is heavily frowned upon and punished by appraisers. I have a 2000' sq ft finished timberframe, with 1300' more square feet in the basement if I ever finish it.

I have mcmansions all around me (well, every couple miles, as I am somewhat rural). My house (after over a month of the appraisers horsing around with it) was comp'd to mobile homes (one of the comps had a hole where a car and driven through it - no kidding) since it could never be compared to our precious mcmansions.

I didn't saw my siding myself or have trees to fell for 'free'. But, my initial purchase was of white pine that a guy had given up trying to sell for years and years. So, initially it was considerably cheaper than 'traditional' modern siding. Add 20 gallons of Sikkens stain (I felt compelled to do everything I could to preserve the pine - all 6 sides of a board is alot of square feet), and it was more expensive than LP Smartside. The stain was wickedly expensive, I didn't find anything much cheaper online, so its not like a got really shafted supporting a local guy. So by the time I had dirt cheap wood and the fancy stain, it was about 2x Smartside with no paint.

And, the manufactured is easier and faster to install (at least to me it is) - So lots of time could be saved there. So I guess my point, which I never illustrated, is that I have been beaten to side with industry. I don't see a house as an investment really, but I did build a potential depreciating 'asset' in my area by going against the grain. I will pay for it. Its my fault. Just a warning to anyone building in a hot area. Once you leave the norm, you might box yourself in a corner. If i ever try to sell, I'm pretty sure I'll have to doctor the exterior (replace) to be more conforming and paint the timberframe or just cut it out.

Oh and let you tell you how much people hate my metal roof...that is another story. Thank heavens I never ordered that slate I just about went with. Cant imagine how that would've further reduced the so called value.

eddiebo · November 25, 2012, 06:48:11 PM

Bigshow those people are crazy. You have something to really push your chest out about. I checked out your blog, and again be proud good man. Be proud. They will all gather at your fortress when heavy rains, and high winds come brother.

Jay C. White Cloud · November 25, 2012, 10:23:01 PM

Good Evening Bigshow,

Thanks for your praise of my entries to this forum, I wish I had started participating earlier myself, but later is better than never. I am using these entries and my time spent on different forums to, "dust off," my writing skills. I have been asked to publish and feedback from everyone is a big help, thanks. As I get better at this, I will post more and add pictures.

Where the heck to you live brother, you need some help and support, I mean it! I read your entry twice, made a copy of it, and read it again line for line just to get my facts strait, while I made this entry. If there is ever anything you think I may be able to do for you, please let me know. It sounds like you are in some kind of "crazy hellish" building zone. ???

I have dealt with banks, appraisers, architects, designers, (you name it,) all over the country (and over seas; that's why you see me using metric in my entries.) It is rare for someone to go through what you are experiencing, at least in my 30 plus years of experience. I am so sorry you had, (are) going through this kind of trouble. Timber frames, log structure, post and beam, etc., are all in a family of architecture globally, that is considered unique, and in most areas, a luxury building style. From Greenwich, Connecticut, (in Fairfield county the wealthiest county in the United States,) to Hollywood, California, if it is in this style, you are going to pay 20%, 30% and even more for the architecture, in most cases. Now "green," materials are becoming the "hot," item and very much in demand.

Timber framing isn't mainstream, (yet,) here in the states, but it is definitely on the rise, and has been since the 70's when I started. There are some areas, (you must be in one,) in a few states that are more challenging than others but it is not the norm. It often can be traced back to a lack of knowledge and/or a consortium of "big wig," contractors, that do not want to compete with a superior building method.

You had the correct idea for your siding, don't be discouraged, it was your methodology that was flawed. We make our own stains, (and yes, you could too, it's easy,) using natural oils, borates for U.V. stabilization, and citrus oils as a drying/penetrating agent. "Landark," is what we have been using for over 20 years and just mix our own oxides and/or dyes to get the color we want. Then you spray it on, it is so quick, we can do 3 coats on a whole 12 meter x 18 meter (40'x60') barn in just a few hours. Make sure you have an air space behind the siding whenever possible, wood likes to have air around it.

The general consensus in the industry, with many conscience builders and designers, is that "LP Smart side" is junk just waiting to de-laminate, mold or worse. Great if you are a siding contractor or "Mac-Mansion" developer, but it sucks if you are an architect, design/builder wanting the product that you had been promised. Like I said before, I have seen more of this stuff being ripped off because of mold and delimitation than I have seen go on in the past few years.

People hate your metal roof? ???

??? Dartmouth College, not far from me, just spent 1.6 million on slate and metal roofing to replace asphalt and tar/gravel on several of their buildings. Metal, slate, stone, tile, etc.; are all considered luxury products, coast-to-coast and overseas. Again, buddy I feel for you and where you seem to be stuck, I sincerely mean that.

Whatever you do, don't give up. You are a "metal man," keep "sticking," it to them and hold strong. You will set a new standard. I'm going to try and reach out to some people I know and track down a supporter for you in your area, if you want to continue to timber frame for others.

Regards,

Jay

P.S. Please call me Jay. Do you know Whit and Gabel Holder? You follow their blog; they are friends of mine?

Draco · November 26, 2012, 01:00:05 PM

Jay,

I will need a good finish product, so I looked up Land Ark. They suggest two wet coats, a finish coat after 3 -4 months and follow up coats every 2 - 5 years. That's more spraying or brushing than walking and smiling. I don't have a better solution, but perhaps you do more to prevent slapping on another coat that often. True?

Jay C. White Cloud · November 26, 2012, 08:29:54 PM

Even'n Draco,

Perhaps my statement about wood siding was a tad glib, but I stand behind it in general. Of course each case is unique, with it's own set of challenges, nevertheless, wood, when treated with one of the more traditional modalities, is a very low maintenance/long live siding. Hand planed wood, when done well, (as found in Asian,) can last a millennium, with no treatment of any kind!

Now for "Landark's" application recommendation; it is the normal industry standard line that you will get from most manufactures and is very generic in nature. I love landark and know of no one that has used it for any length of time that doesn't swear by it. With that said, everything has it's limitations. If you followed there recommendation, your building would look almost brand new for as long as you continued, but it is a bit "overkill." I have seen barn's that have had it on for over ten years, and are just now taking on a patina of age, (that frankly, doesn't look bad.) If you waited another five years, (that would be 15 since the first thorough application,) you would get that aged "oiled" look that you can only get with the passage of time. Some folks don't care for that effect, so they are going to have to "bight the bullet," and apply it more often, but that is better than paint, which in most modern applications just doesn't work on wood the way the industry so often would have us to believe.

By the way, a "pro finishers," trick-use a "bug sprayer" to apply your oil, then a quick dab with a cotton rag, super results and fast. It's a great way to speed up those periodic touch-ups, when ever you choose to do it. Hope that helped, but without knowing you situation, species of wood. treatment goal, etc. it's the best I can do.

Regards,

Jay

shinnlinger · November 26, 2012, 08:34:33 PM

Basically every board/timber you see in my house I milled. The outside has significant overhangs so they never get wet.

Dave

eddiebo · November 26, 2012, 09:07:39 PM

Semper Fi

Jay C. White Cloud · November 26, 2012, 09:33:42 PM

Shinnlinger

,

Lest see, timber frame, great location, awesome colors, roof line with "statement," o.k. somebodies got talent! I'm looking forward to that conversation and a meal, I want to hear all about your home.

Jay

frwinks · November 28, 2012, 11:31:02 AM

We milled about half the timbers that went into our house. Some were purchased for far below the cost of sawlogs and milling so in the end it all worked out just fine ;D
As a part time home builder I hear you bigshow...some of the stuff I've done took waaaaaaaaay too long (what do you mean ppl don't build wooden soffits anymore??) and some needed a special PEng review/stamp and BS that goes along with it all, but man I tell ya...this house puts a huge smile on my face everytime I pull into our driveway. I'll never forget the words of wisdom from you after we raised our frame...you know, about the honeymoon being over after the frame is up :D :D so true brother, soooo true :D Two years and counting......

eddiebo · November 28, 2012, 05:37:42 PM

frwinks very nice build. LARGE too !!!

Jay C. White Cloud · November 28, 2012, 06:09:55 PM

Another timber frame is born!!! Down with stick frames, up with Timber Frames. Doesn't if feel sooooo good! 8)

Planman1954 · November 28, 2012, 06:55:55 PM

I took a photo of the front of the Carriage House I've been building totally from lumber sawn on my Lumbermate 2000:

scully · November 29, 2012, 08:53:04 AM

I have been a pipe fitter for over 30 years . I have always had a nack for wood working and building . I recently lost my job after 14 years with the same company, but I look at it as a push to get me into the life I so desperately wanted to live. I am a "woodman" I have a mill now that has all the capability anyone could need, I took on a job restoring a 170+- yr old structure.

I promise to get pic's as soon as I figure out how. I have always been one to figure out how to make something work I have alot of good tools but I also lay out pockets and tongues with a tape and square then cut them any way I can, finishing with a couple old chisels I have.

I'm getting ready to go back over to work on my project this A.M. and after reading this thread I have found even more inspiration! I have the dream of the day I finally get to build my own timberframe! Everything else is practice right now! I hope you guys don't get to tired of me because I plan on being here alot!

As for store bought materials I.E. siding etc.; no thanks. If I were in the afore mentioned situation I would maybe have networked a bit to find a guy with a mill or maybe even looked into buying a load of logs if I knew a mill guy, I would then figure out the best siding for what I was doing and have it all cut! There are so many possibilities and none are bad!