DIY timber survey?

[scgargoyle]

We'll be going up to our woodlot in SC this winter, and I want to try to assess what I have for timber. In the summer I determined that it was mostly white oak, but I didn't pay enough attention to how many and what size. The woods are very consistent in density, so I figured I'd measure out say 100X100 feet, and count and measure every tree in that square. From there, I could roughly extrapolate the total. So- what am I looking for? Is this a workable plan?

[Jeff]

Until one of the Foresters twaddle by, you might try this link form the forum knowledge base under forum extras.

https://forestryforum.com/tips/tips.cgi?display:1010359141-3837.txt

[Ron Wenrich]

So, how many of those 100x100 plots are you planning to do?  You should have several plots taken at different spots to get a better idea. 

If point sampling isn't what you're up to, I would suggest you do circular plots.  Circular plots are a little easier to measure.  All you need is some sort of staff for your plot center.  Then a piece of rope a certain length will give you the maximum distance you need to measure.  Start at one point and sweep a circle.  Measure all tree species, diameters and height. You'll need that data to get an idea of what you have.

For plot size, you can use whatever you are comfortable with.  Plot radii (length of rope) are:

1 acre - 117.8'
1/2 ac -  83.3'
1/4    -    58.9'
1/5    -    52.7'
1/10  -    37.2'
1/100 -   11.8'  (used for regeneration sample)

The other thing you will need to consider is how many you want to take.  If you are doing a 10% sample, you would need one 1/10 acre plot per acre.  Or you could do one 1/5 acre plot for every 2 acres.

I always like to do strips on a N-S or E-W line.  Compass and pace to your points and put in the plot.  It also gets you real well acquainted with your land.  A 200' x 200' grid will give you an approximate 1 acre grid.  (Actually 208 x 208).

[WDH]

scgargoyle,

If you want help in laying out and conducting an accurate cruise, contact me and I will be glad to help you lay it out.

[Phorester]

What Ron said.

[scgargoyle]

We actually walked pretty much the entire lot (7 acres), and the trees seemed to be pretty consistent in size. The ground has a very uniform slope, no water feature, and nothing in the way of large trees caught my eye. I'm starting to think it will be mostly be firewood, since many of the trees are probably too small to mill. Luckily, there is no underbrush or vines, so it's easy walking. Since it has a fresh survey, the first thing I'm going to do is nail tags on the trees that are more or less on the property line, to make it easier to find the borders after the little flags disappear. I'll be clearing a couple acres for now, and I might selectively thin the rest to let the desired trees reach their potential. I figured if I did a survey (even if it's only one square or circle) it would give me an idea of what to do next. I should be able to talk it over w/ a forester w/ this info in hand. I've heard it can be hard to get a state certified forester to come out to look at a small lot like this.

[Jeff]

Nail tags to the trees?  YIKES! Make sure if you do that, its way down low on stump.  Let your motto be "Nails and Trees and Trees and Nails and Never the twain shall meet."

[Jeff]

Your better off paying a couple bucks a piece and putting in steel fence poles.

[Jeff]

I may have to answer this often.  :D

[Tom]

I'll help.......

No nails in the trees!

A good line marker is 2 or 3 foot pieces of 1/2 or 3/4 inch PVC pipe at least every 100ft.  Let them stick up so that you can see them.  A 5 foot piece now and again helps.

[farmerdoug]

It is obvious that he is not currently a mill owner.  Anyone with an sawmill would cringe at that statement. :

Do everyone a favor.  You will know what we mean when you start cutting nails in logs. ;)

NO NAILS IN ANY TREES!!!!!!!

Farmerdoug

[Jeff]

Tom, I like your idea of the PVC. it might be quite a bit cheaper even then the metal posts, quite visible and still easily put in the ground.

[Ron Scott]

"White" PVC markers are hard to see here in the winter unless painted some bright color. Deer, bear, neighbors, etc. also knock them down easier than steel fence posts with the cleats on the bottom.  ;)

[Jeff]

Thats why we pay you the big bucks. ;)  Never thought of some of those reasons.

[Ron Wenrich]

I doubt Tom thought about the snow.   :D

[Jeff]

I bet he did. Hes always thinking about snow. Just today he said "You better get up to the cabin and get the snow peas picked" 

[woodmills1]

I did my own fifth of an acre plots to put my land into federal timber tax right up front.  Its not hard ifin yas inta math.  Do the circles, measure every tree then cast it out to the whole lot.  Paper work is the word here, do the ground work then keep the paper.

[bitternut]

Since you say you have a fresh survey and they flagged the lines I would drive a sturdy steel post at each corner and paint it a bright color. A 6' steel T-post driven a couple feet into the ground should be sufficient. The lines I would put paint on the line trees that lined up with the flagging line done by the surveyor. Oil base paint works best and lasts the longest. Use a cheap 4'' brush and put the paint splotches about at DBH. If a tree is right on the line you put a splotch on each side of the tree perpendicular to the line and if it is just off the line put the paint on the side of the tree closest to the line. When you are done you can look down the line and easily see your paint but it is not nearly as noticeable when away from the line.

I used white paint when I did my 200 acres and it only took a couple of gallons of paint so one gallon should be more than enough. One of my neighbors on one boundary marked the same trees I had just marked with blue paint next to my splotches. That part is really marked good now.

This boundary marking was suggested to me by the fellow that did my survey and I am well satisfied with the results. White lasts a long time and can be found on sale quite often.

[WDH]

Whatever you do, mark the lines well with something permanent.  You will be amazed how people's memories conjure up all kinds of strange things when it comes to remembering "where the line is".  I could tell you some stories!   What is bad is cruising timber where the lines are not marked or poorly marked and when the two landowners each remember something different but both believe that they are exactly right.  Good fences make good neighbors.  I caught a trespasser on my property a couple of weeks ago hunting on my property.  He said that he had permission to hunt on the landowner who owned property in front of me.  I walked him a bit down the road and pointed to a tall 4x4 pressure treated pine post with the top half painted orange and asked him what he thought that meant.  He did not have a clue!  Definitely a cityslicker.

[scgargoyle]

I should have specified aluminum nails! They make them specifically for this purpose. I like the idea of the paint- I can just redo it periodically. I have one question about using circles- how do you swing a circle in the woods w/ all those trees in the way (other than cutting 'em all down first!)? Fence posts would be OK for a boundary, as long as nobody moves them. We were able to find the old survey markers w/o too much trouble when we first walked the property, even though they were 20 years old. The problem becomes trying to sight a 600' line w/ a hundred trees in the way. It must be a pain surveying dense woods, or else they just checked the old corners w/ GPS and called it good. Eventually I may string wire around the whole lot, once we live there, but I'd rather not pay for another $urvey. I will probably always leave a buffer of woods around the perimeter, so I'm not worried about harvesting right up to the line.

[Jeff]

We don't like aluminum nails either.  ;)

[jon12345]

If you have a pole or stake to mark the center of your plot you can just go back to it each time and pull the rope out to each tree.  It helps to have someone else writing everything down for you.

[scgargoyle]

We don't like aluminum nails either.  ;)

Interestingly, it was a forestry supply place that sells both the tags and the aluminum nails! I think I'll just go with the paint- cheaper, faster, easier.

[Ron Scott]

The tagged boundary trees would not be planned for cutting, but paint works well. Nelson paint company, who makes tree marking paint, sells a survey grade paint that lasts much longer than most for marking boundary lines.