Sold my equipment tried underground mining. Going back logging again

[U.P mich]

Logging markets got real bad and my quotas got cut in half early summer. Got an opportunity to go underground mining. Have been doin that for 3 months.  Well it's not logging so I'm goin back to the woods.  Just wanted to share that . Now I know for certain where I belong and no matter how much greener the grass may look in someone else's yard.  The grass in your yard is better because it's yours and you grew it.

[sawguy21]

Good for you. I'll take green grass and the sun on my face any day.

[PA_Walnut]

UP Mich, my mom's from up your way (Marquette area) and told many tales of whoa about her father being a miner. Sounds like tough going! 

We visited with the kids last Aug! Lake Michigan and Superior are amazingly beautiful. Lovely area...we'll be back soon.

Here's some pix from our visit!

[Gearbox]

I don't think I could be a Mole . I would stay on top with a chain saw to .

[Corley5]

Once a logger always a logger   I don't think I could work underground :-\

[nativewolf]

PA Walnut,

Great great pictures.  Wish I had your touch.  Do you belong to any photo clubs?

[PA_Walnut]

Native,
I don't belong to any clubs, but I have been a photographer and cinematographer for 20+ years, so it's what I do!  ;D
Thanks for the compliments. It's easy when visiting special places like that!  8)

[JJ]

I have a daughter with a eye for photography like your pictures.  I take picture of same thing she does, and somehow hers belongs in a frame.
Thanks for sharing your awesome pictures.

  JJ

[JJ]

It's all about light.  How did you get enough light for the spectacular Milky Way photo?

[Ianab]

It's all about light.  How did you get enough light for the spectacular Milky Way photo?

A REALLY bright flash?  :D

But seriously a modern digital camera will take that sort of pic if you set it on a tripod, wind open the aperture, up the ISO and set it for 10-30 second exposure. The cameras sensor can pick up faint light better than our eyes, as long as you give it a long exposure.

[U.P mich]

Yes this is an amazing area we call home here In the upper penninsula Michigan. We really are blessed with the lakes and rivers and trees etc .   I'm glad I don't have to spend my time underground anymore.   Life's to short and the scenery is to good to not spend the day in it.   

[PA_Walnut]

Yes, we'll be up for a visit again real soon!

As for the pix (light, etc.) the comment about modern cameras is only partially accurate/true. People are very excited to get a new camera, often forgetting that mega-pixels, blinky lights and lots of dials and buttons don't make for good pix--LENSES DO! (everything starts there.).

I have a set of primes lenses that are most excellent and very fast. Almost necessary for astro photography. It's a great way to get outside at night and see a whole other world!

[Ianab]

True. A better lens allows a larger aperture setting for night shots, which coupled with the other things improves a shot like that a lot. Huge mpix make little difference unless you are trying to crop or print it on the side of a building.

[nativewolf]

Yes this is an amazing area we call home here In the upper penninsula Michigan. We really are blessed with the lakes and rivers and trees etc .   I'm glad I don't have to spend my time underground anymore.   Life's to short and the scenery is to good to not spend the day in it.

I think I hijacked the thread a bit but at least it was complimentary to your decision to stay above ground. 

Out of curiosity what was the mineral/ore being mined?

[Corley5]

Were you at the Eagle Mine?

[thecfarm]

Not the first one to get hijacked.  :D

[1270d]

You going to buy some iron or go to work for someone?    Plenty of used stuff out there right now. More like a flood really.

[nativewolf]

Not the first one to get hijacked.  :D

If it had to get hijacked at least it was started by some great pictures of his State.

[PA_Walnut]

No hijack intent...more of a positive reinforcement that while the grass may look greener over there, it's really green where you're standing! ;)

[U.P mich]

I'm looking at equipment as we speak. Lots of decent used equipment out there right now so it shouldn't take to long to find what I'm looking for.  Can't wait !  Logging is a labor of love for sure. 

[nativewolf]

so back to pulp?  Custom harvesting?  Veneer?  What's the plan?

[Gary_C]

Logging markets got real bad and my quotas got cut in half early summer.

Are you thinking that logging markets got better since summer?

[Hilltop366]

Not the first one to get hijacked.  :D

But this time it wasn't about food!

Well it is the "milky" way.

[BLink]

Let me know if you run into some nice curly or birdseye maple logs.

[U.P mich]

Not that the markets have gotten that much better tho sad to say the hurricane did give the local markets a lil bump up.  I just realized it really doesn't matter what the prices are, I'm gonna cut timber until I physically or financially cannot possibly do it anymore lol .  It took a few months of mining for me to realize that .  So I'm heading to custom harvesting/ cutting for companies .  Before I was mainly a pulp producer . Now I'm focusing on more of a niche market . Small acerage private land owners who can't get the larger operations to come cut for them.  Also select harvesting for companies now and again.  Have a fair amount of work lined up for winter.  Winters my favorite time to log so I'm excited to get back at it.

[mike_belben]

It took me most of my life to conclude money and happiness are often inversely proportional.  Best of luck back in the woods man.

Hebrews 13:5

[Pclem]

U.P mich, you said you are going into a niche market with small acreage. Mind me asking what kind of equipment  you'll be buying? I'm assuming hand cutting with a skidder or forwarder? Just assuming it is harder to make a profit with larger equip.

[62oliver]

U.P mich, do you mind if I ask what did you not like about the mining gig?

[U.P mich]

Yes I'll be hand cutting with a forwarder and a small cable Skidder . I had the large equipment 13+ load / week operation and it isn't as good as you may think. I made more money personally when I was a one man show with a powersaw and forwarder 10 years ago.  Way less stress being a smaller operation also.   As for mining I can't handle being underground all day when all my life I've been in the woods.  I'll take the bugs and the rain and the snow over being underground any day. Lol

[Firewoodjoe]

U.P this is what I'm looking at doing. If u could only afford a cable skidder first would u buy one or barrow money for a forwarder? What kind of production are u expecting from yourself? Good luck to u. We all need it!

[U.P mich]

Hands down I would get a forwarder right away.  Ideally both would be nice to have as cable Skidders are handy when a forwarder can't get to the wood but I find a forwarder more efficient. Easier for a one man operation to produce, cleaner logs so the mills like it, nicer piles and better sorts so the truckers like it.  I can normally produce 30 cord a day in decent timber lil less in small wood lil more in large wood. It's a long day to cut it all and get it picked up but once the snow flies everything has to be picked up the same day so the production slows down some.  Summer I can cut 2 or 3 days than forward one whole day and repeat

[Firewoodjoe]

Your felling bucking and skidding 30 cord a day? So 150 cord a week by yourself?

[mike_belben]

Thats incredible.

[U.P mich]

I cut daylight to dark with brakes in between when I'm tired and skid early mornings and evenings if I can. Otherwise Saturday is for skidding.That's pulp logs and bolts combined  in decent 14" minimum dbh heavy cut   I'd say most trees are 16-18" dbh marked around 15 cord / acre. And I have an efficient system for bucking wood that makes it easier than I see a lot of people doing.   Like I said tho once the snow hits and I have to cut and skid the same day the production will decrease by about 5-8 cord / day. In This case it makes it nice to have an employee to forward so I can keep cutting but employees are extremely expensive and in my experience unreliable lol. I know of another one man crew like this that has been doing 25 cord / day consistently for 18 years with 1 part time employee that helps out now and than.  I can't keep up the 30+ cord / day forever. Eventually I'll slow down I'm sure.  But today isn't that day lol . 

[chep]

As a hand chopper in front of a forwarder I would love to hear some of your bucking methods to cut 30 cord a day. Not doubting you, cos in the right wood it is definitely doable. But 6 days a week? Our 12 ton double bunk holds about 3.5 cord. Average day in marginal wood I can cut 3 forwarder loads without killing myself. Big wood good ground you can double or better. 
30 cord a day is a pretty big number. Is it loggers choice or marked wood?

[U.P mich]

I had a double bunk timberjack 1210 b when I started hand cutting. 5 cord bunk heaped.   And I would cut 5 loads a day in nice wood  3 in smaller wood
Recently I had a fabtek 546c 5 cord bunk. And I would cut 5 loads a day for that in nice wood.  I'm not saying I got it all skidded the same day but it all got skidded eventually.  Like I said once winter hits and all the wood must be picked up every day production falls substantially with a one man operation.  Now it's not possible to achieve 25-30 cord / day in small wood.  It's just not.   Mature oak stands .  Old growth hard maple stands.  We are talkin 3-4 10' sawlogs/ tree and a few sticks of pulp all day long .  That's what's on a lot of state and federal forest sales around here. As well as private sales.   Have to pick and choose jobs wisely when hand cutting.  Once in a while a low production job has to be cut but if I can't make money on a job or barely break even than I can't cut it unless it's a favor . Or just one bad job out of many good ones for a land owner. 10 cord / day is a good day in small timber or rough terrain I'd be proud to produce that .  It just makes it so much easier to produce high volumes in the right wood.  That's what I'm always on the search for.  I. Etc if you converted you sawlog volumes to cordage you would be higher than you think.  I just go by total cordage ex. 5 buggie loads full with a 5 cord capacity buggy is 25 cord day.  Once on the landing in the form of pulp, bolts logs firewood etc. It doesn't look like much but after a few days you get some loads hauled and see what you really had.  It's real close.  I buck the wood with a 10'9" long 3/4 inch plastic tubeing with red electrical tape wrapped around it at 99" , 105" and 129"  that way I just lay the stick down and cut next to the red tape line I need.  A tape measure and paint or foresters tape takes to long.  I don't cut many over 10'9" unless it's veneer .

[Gearbox]

I have said this befor . There is something about seeing the sun come up on a winter morning in the woods . Better yet seeing Hawks Hitting rodents in a Spruce swamp . Going in befor the sun comes up seeing Deer Cats Wolves and things every day that most people never see . That is the reason we do what we do and why some people Don't get it .

[Firewoodjoe]

Well that is awesome UP. And I hope to achieve that also. When u do a thinning and hand cut and buck it at the stump how much trouble do u have getting those forwarders close enough? That's what I worry about buying a forwarder vs cable/grapple. I've done it but that was with a iron mule. They are like an atv in the woods. Not like the last decades equipment.

[mike_belben]

How are you guys figuring the amount of cordage here?  Is this timber getting processed into firewood? Or weighed or something?

[Firewoodjoe]

I'm figuring on 128 cubic feet. Isn't any cord 128 cubic feet? Unless your talking ricks or face cords but I don't think anyone is here. And no one has mention per thousand which there's two cord per thousand. The only diff in production would be dbh or if it's 10s 12s vs say 8s.

[chep]

Thanks for the reply u.p mich! Good stuff. Sounds like you have a great system worked out and from the sounds of it you won t have any issues getting back in the game.

You are right about the forwarder landings. It is very deceptive how much wood is there with lots of sorts. 

So your measuring tube. Do you roll it up and un  roll it for every tree or do you just drag it around? I use a spooled self rewinding tape. We do a lot of diff lengths up to 20 ft so I find it the quickest to set the nail at the defect or butt or tip and work off that.

[mike_belben]

Yeah its 128 cubic foot.  What im asking is if your hauling out logs that get cut into firewood, stacked and measured one time to come up with the "it fits 5 cord" figure.. Or was it some other way?

[U.P mich]

I use the plastic tube at the 10'9" length with red tape marks along it where my sort lengths need to be cut. and I just carry it around its way faster than using a retractable tape. You could even use a nice straight light stick .  It will cut your bucking time in half I guarantee  it.    I buck as I go down the tree cutting off limbs as I get to them.   As for forwarding hand bucked wood it isn't difficult unless you are in steep terrain or you fall in an area you cannot drive to such as a stream or property line.  Work on directional felling and plan 3 or 4 trees ahead where you need them to go and I'd recommend a forwarder with an extendable boom and you shouldn't have a problem.  As for cordage talk.  A cord is 128 cf.  or in pulpwood terms. 4'x4'x8' long is a pulp cord / loggers cord  my last forwarder held 5 cord. Mind you a lot of what I cut and hauled was logs obviously measured by mbf but I just call it cord when I haul full buggy loads so I know how much I cut without stick scaling everything.   Our pulpwood here is measured mostly by the ton at the mill. Tho some mills stick scale on the truck. 

[mike_belben]

I think youre missing my question U.P.    ill rephrase.

When i haul in a load of fresh cut white oak sawlogs that scales 1300 board foot and weighs 23,000 lbs.. How many cord have i got?   Only way i can think to figure it out is cut/split/stack and count how many cord it makes.  I suppose if it was all one length of logs i could measure the bundle dimension and find cubic volume of the shape.

[Gearbox]

Mike White oak is a little heaver than Red . Red here is payed on a 5000 pound cord . That was about what I hauled on my 3 axel .

[mike_belben]

Thanks.  I finally got off my lazy butt and googled it.  Heres a really thorough chart of various industrial wood metrics.

http://www.globalwood.org/tech/tech_wood_weights.htm

[bushmechanic]

We used to lug around a measuring stick, now we have the measure on the saw. It's great you never lose it and it's always with you.

 

[Firewoodjoe]

Is that just a small red rod sticking out? So u use the hole saw and the rod combined?

[bushmechanic]

Yes the whole saw and the whip together...makes four feet. if you like you can put whatever marks on it with black tape to get your specific length. I mostly cut eight feet so it's two smacks with the saw and cut above the mark.

[U.P mich]

That's an interesting measuring system. Perhaps I'll give that a try . I'm always looking for a faster more efficient way of doing things .  Tho it seems it may be difficult to judge more than one length.  I can cut 3 lengths with the stick I carry and if I must go longer which doesn't happen often. It's easy to measure  the next length.   How do you go about cutting various lengths with that measuring system?  As my standard lengths are 99".  104" and 128"   I have these all on the same stick .

[U.P mich]

I have a magnetic stick similar to that for cutting firewood. ThAt goes on the bar I find it works great for that.

[barbender]

I think youre missing my question U.P.    ill rephrase.

When i haul in a load of fresh cut white oak sawlogs that scales 1300 board foot and weighs 23,000 lbs.. How many cord have i got?   Only way i can think to figure it out is cut/split/stack and count how many cord it makes.  I suppose if it was all one length of logs i could measure the bundle dimension and find cubic volume of the shape.

2 1/2-3 cords, weight is irrelevant. Roughly 500bf per cord.

[snowstorm]

We used to lug around a measuring stick, now we have the measure on the saw. It's great you never lose it and it's always with you.

 

i haven't seen a tail in years. back in the 4ft days around here everybody had one

[Ed_K]

 I used to run a tail when I first started. It's just not Accurate enough it your bucking for grade.

[Crusarius]

What about using a pole from a dome tent? The ones that fold up to I think 18" long? small, lightweight, can mark various lengths then unfold when needed.

[Corley5]

Depending on what I'm cutting I use either a 100" stick with a two foot mark on each end or a 126" stick with a 100" mark on each end.  Ironwood works the best but sugar maple is fine ;D  Bright paint on them makes them easier to keep track of.  I tried Spencers and never liked them.  The old Contractor Grade Stanleys worked better for me.