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Blade cost.

Started by customsawyer, September 17, 2014, 08:23:58 PM

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customsawyer

What is your blade cost per BF?
I have done these figures many times but thought that some newbies might find it interesting.
My blade cost run at .0067 cents per bf. I figure in the cost of the blades plus $9.00/ sharpening and this is where my cost are.  I think it is only fair to figure in what you would have to pay for sharpening even if you do it yourself. This way if you are doing your own sharpening you are still getting paid by the mill. I figure what WM would charge, plus $1.00 each way for shipping. I don't know if this is a fair way to figure this but it is the way that I do it.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I trust you Jake......I'm not EVEN gonna try.  :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

customsawyer

For a goat you make a fine chicken. :D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Hookpilot

Keeping in mind I have not started yet and I don't remember where I got the figure but when I built a spreadsheet for some basic computations I had found .01 c/bf.
Keith :-\
WMLT50
"If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader."
                 -- John Quincy Adams

Dave Shepard

I think I am around $0.017 per board foot.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

customsawyer

I have done these figures several times and any time you can get close to .01 cents per bf. or less you are doing fine on your blade cost. I was mostly curious where some of you other sawyers came in with your blade cost.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Dave Shepard

I think that number was for lumber only. Cutting timbers would drop that a lot. I personally am not too worried about it. If it cost $0.10 I'd probably stop sawing, but I wouldn't sharpen my own.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Joe Hillmann

Those numbers seem very low.  If that is right it would mean you must be getting nearly 1000 board feet per sharpening.

I cut all of my logs into 1/2" thick and lately have been hitting a lot of nails, I am lucky if I can get 100 board feet out of a blade between sharpening so my cost is closer to $0.13 per board foot.  (I came up with that cost by figuring I can get 3 sharpens out of a blade before it breaks so I take one third of the blade cost ($6) plus the cost of sharpening ($7) and divide it by the 100 board feet I average per sharpening.

Joe Hillmann

Oops double posted when I tried to modify my last post.

Delawhere Jack

Interesting Jake. Your figure sounds right. How many sharpenings per band are you figuring? 5-6?

You probably encounter less metal in you operation than guys who do strictly portable sawing. But then us portable guys usually charge for destroyed bands, so I guess that evens it out in the end.

Now if only my truck was as efficient with gas at the mill is with bands!  :D

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on September 17, 2014, 09:39:42 PM
Those numbers seem very low.  If that is right it would mean you must be getting nearly 1000 board feet per sharpening.

I cut all of my logs into 1/2" thick and lately have been hitting a lot of nails, I am lucky if I can get 100 board feet out of a blade between sharpening so my cost is closer to $0.13 per board foot.  (I came up with that cost by figuring I can get 3 sharpens out of a blade before it breaks so I take one third of the blade cost ($6) plus the cost of sharpening ($7) and divide it by the 100 board feet I average per sharpening.

Excluding bands wrecked from metal strikes, you should be getting a lot more than 100 bf between sharpening. Even in hardwoods, and without a debarker, you should be getting 300 bf plus milling 4/4, softwoods 500 bf plus. Based on my experience running WM 1 1/4" bands.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on September 17, 2014, 09:40:36 PM
Oops double posted when I tried to modify my last post.

Thats OK Joe, I enjoy reading your postsssssssss. ;D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

redprospector

I've got my cost figured at 0.027 per bd. ft. using your figures for sharpening. Looks like a debarker might pay for itself pretty quick.  :o
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Brucer

I used to be at $0.035 / BF. That included the sharpening charges, the shipping charges, and my time and $ driving the blades to the bus depot (and picking them up again).

Charging yourself for sharpening time is one way to do the calculation, but there's a better way. Do the math to figure out if you earn more money (total sales minus material costs) per hour sharpening your own, versus sending them out. If you have all the work you can handle, you may be better off sending your blades out.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

5quarter

Joe...X2 what H Jake said. The big reason why customsawyer can get 1000bf + per blade per sharpening is because he can saw at least three times faster than say, a medium duty manual mill. Say for example, that he and I are sawing side by side with our mills and we saw for one hour. since our band speed is roughly the same, the bands will make the same # of revolutions in that period of time. I may only saw 100bf, whereas Customsawyer might be around 300bf at the end of that hour. So lets say that we saw for 3 more hours. we take a lunch break and change our blades. Mine has only sawn 400bf and its getting dull. So is his, but he's up around 1200bf. I am limited in my saw speed because of my lower hp engine. Customsawyer on the other hand, whose mill has significantly more hp than mine, is only limited by the performance of the blade. If we were to look at the sawdust our two mills made, you'd see that his would be coarser than mine, as each tooth on his can take a bigger bite with each pass. The only way to significantly reduce my blade cost per bf is to get a bigger mill. many other factors figure into blade cost per bf, but HP is a biggie.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

backwoods sawyer

I came up with .0375bft on this last batch of 20 saws.
Had a rash of metal strikes on several jobs back to back ::)
shortening the life or killing over half the saws. The saws that are left are at about half life and if I figure half of them will find metal the cost per bft will go down some but not a whole lot over the course of the next few sharpenings.

I alway buy the first saw that hits metal and the customer buys the rest that do. Just figure it as normal wear and tear sawing yard trees.

   
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

customsawyer

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on September 17, 2014, 09:39:42 PM
Those numbers seem very low.  If that is right it would mean you must be getting nearly 1000 board feet per sharpening.

I cut all of my logs into 1/2" thick and lately have been hitting a lot of nails, I am lucky if I can get 100 board feet out of a blade between sharpening so my cost is closer to $0.13 per board foot.  (I came up with that cost by figuring I can get 3 sharpens out of a blade before it breaks so I take one third of the blade cost ($6) plus the cost of sharpening ($7) and divide it by the 100 board feet I average per sharpening.


My blade cost are going to be lower than most due to the fact that I am cutting lots of large timbers. It is not out of the norm for me to get close to 2000 bf/sharpening. I get more bf out of a resharpened blade than I do a new blade.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Chuck White

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on September 17, 2014, 09:39:42 PM
Those numbers seem very low.  If that is right it would mean you must be getting nearly 1000 board feet per sharpening.


A couple of weeks ago I had a sawjob where I sawed 4,700+ bf of White Pine and I had 5 blades to sharpen after the job was done, so, 4,700 divided by 5 = 940 board feet per blade on that particular job!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

giant splinter

I have tried to keep a running check on my blade costs, it can get confusing with so many variables and can also get expensive if your blade maintenance program and re-sharp service is not of top notch quality. If you have someone else doing the re-sharp you must keep very close records of your blades and be sure that the service is not rejecting blades that might just need a small amount of extra attention to get them right, if your blades are being taken out of service when you could be saving a couple that have minor problems or issues that can be fixed your costs will be very high. My best efforts to monitor the cost per B/F are revealing that its costing me on average between 3 and 4 cents per board foot so my average is $0.035 / B.F. average all costs considered. If the time comes when I am using up a high volume of blades and can see that it would be worthwhile to re-sharp my own I will be asking all the experts here for advice and help selecting the proper equipment.
roll with it

scsmith42

Very good thread Jake.  I am still learning to optimize Tom, so my band costs are still extraordinarily high mainly due to running them too long before changing them (still sharp, but did not pay attention to the hours of run time and broke several on my last run - expensive lesson!). 

I've moved up to the 1-1/2" .055 bands which has allowed me to increase my speed in the cut, but I'm still figuring things out.  It seems counter-intuitive to change a band that is still sharp because of the development of cracks in the gullet that result from the # of revolutions on the wheel.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

drobertson

Jake, I have not ran the numbers on the resharps, but figuring the initial cost I'm running close to .03 but not over this for sure. Fuel is .015 or so, crashed, trashed  blades are few but just never factor these in, too painful to add up when it happens.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Dave Shepard

customsawyer, how many times can you sharpen a band, and what width and thickness do you run? I think I remember you were running wider bands on one of the mills. I get 4 or 5 sharpenings on .055" with a 19" wheel. Do you get more with the larger wheels on your LT70s?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Jemclimber

Since I'm an analyst I will point out that I think Jake meant that is the cost in dollars and not cents.  ;)
Here is a table I just typed up in excel to show blade cost with the rate of $23 per blade initial cost and $9 for resharpening.
lt15

backwoods sawyer

I wish my blade cost $23 ea.  ;D

184" 1 1/2" .055 are running $35 ea.

Even though we may get more revolutions per saw, the saw has to be in the wood for a high percentage of those revolutions to bring the cost per bft down.


Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Dave Shepard

I'm talking about flex life.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

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