iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Sawing square after first flip.

Started by New Brunswick, October 05, 2014, 07:26:53 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

New Brunswick

Does anyone have trouble after flipping log the first time with the cant not being perfectly square to 2nd face after the first pass on the 2nd face? I had a manual round post I had to reach over log to move up and down, but since have added hyd arms that flip up for back support. I take my 2 foot level and check first face after it is flipped to adjust face to being plum, sometimes it is and sometimes not. I will take a few pictures of my set up and post them tomorrow( and it could very well be all the trouble here, but all seems plum and square), but was just wondering how you guys and your mills make out with that?

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

New Brunswick

Well as you will see in pics when added of course, there are no spots to check square using a framing square as the 1st face is pointing off the edge of mill.

 

scouter Joe

After the first cut I rotate 180 to make the second cut . Then turn 90 and you can use the square off the bunks to the side of the cant . scouter Joe

Mapleman

I rotate 90 degrees after the first cut, putting the newly sawn edge against the uprights and gently clamp the log in place.  Then I walk the head down close to the log and raise the blade above the log, put a building square against the cut edge and eye ball the other leg of the square with the blade, and adjust the log with the clamp or a cant hook so they're parallel. 

I only do this when I'm cutting timbers, for 1" or 2" boards, getting the first face snug to the uprights is usually square enough.
"The older I get, the better I used to be."

dgdrls

NB,

Check your backstops against the bed rails for square first.
Once in adjustment, clamp for your second cut just enough
to hold the log as others have indicated.

Only issue I ever had with square on my little LT 10 was when
I over clamped and lifted the log/cant up off the bed rails.

DGDrls



kelLOGg

Are your squaring arms flat, straight and rigid and perpendicular to the bunks? They look like fork lift blades which are certainly rigid but tapered.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

YellowHammer

Quote from: New Brunswick on October 05, 2014, 07:40:38 AM
Well as you will see in pics when added of course, there are no spots to check square using a framing square as the 1st face is pointing off the edge of mill

I generally flip 180 after the first face because then only the third face has to be squared.  I generally saw the first face, flip 180, saw 2nd face which is automatically parrallel to the 1st face which is on the mill bed, then rotate 90, check square if needed (my back stops and clamp are square so I usually don't), saw third face, start taking boards off third face until it's time to rotate, then flip 180 so 4rth face is parrallel to 3rd which is on the mill bed.  You can then check final square of cant by rotating 90 and check with blade, if necessary, the face and blade should be perfectly parrallel.

If you cut your 2nd face at 180° you would be able to check 90° to mill on the 3rd face because it would rotate a flat face accessible to the inboard side of your mill bed and bed rails.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

backwoods sawyer

With a hydraulic mill YH method is the fastest way I have found and most accurate.

Everytime I try to just turn a 1/4 I spend more time fidling with getting it sqaure.
flipping a cut edge to the bed then having a flat edge on both sides to clamp for the thrird face keeps it square with no fidling.

sighting down the saw and the side of the log will give you square ;)

YH meathod dose keep the log turning on the mill and a quick mark on the end of the log will help keep you oriented to the log ;D
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

golddredger

I flip 180 after the first cut. Then the third cut I roll the log up and use a sqaure from the logs new flat side to the mills log bunk. The bunks are square or true to the blade. Do not use a level to check that measure from the bunks to the blade itself. Then always use the contractors square to check the log to the bunk. But spend the time to make sure the blade is straight with the bunks.
Home built bandsaw mill and trailer for a mini logging operation. Lots of chainsaws and love the woods.

New Brunswick

 


Well that sounds pretty good Mapleman, I will try that and see.

Kellogg...It is 400 steel with a piece of round stock on the top as an extra stiffener and also have gussets welded on the hinge to arm as well.

I removed the axle and have it it fixed on blocking and it is plumb in all directions...I have extended blade back and forth across the bunk and height is all the same, I lay a level on top of cant after a couple passes before I flip and it is bang on, I may need a new set of eyes on her. I do on occassion flip 180 and yes then it easy to reference with framing square then, but for me, I find it easier just going 90 and be into 1 clean edge asap.


StimW

Is your blade square to the bunks?
I found it easier to take a short piece of 2" X 2" and use it to square the blade to the bunks. I tried just using a tape and it wasn't square.
I cut, rotate 90* clamp loosely and adjust it with a square to the bunks and cant hook.
New HF Band Mill
Branson 35 hp 4 WD Diesel Tractor W/Attachments- Backhoe, FEL W/ Bucket or Forks, 4' Tiller
4000# Clark Forklift W/24" Tires
Promark 6" Brush chipper W/18 hp Kohler

New Brunswick

Yes it is square, and that is a good idea having a square block to reference from bunks to blade, I use a sliding caliper, but I can see the block as being quicker and faster to use...Thanks for the tip!

dyates

I always seem to struggle getting a cant square on the first go around.  I am generally sawing for grade, however, and skim an eighth off the top every time I flip.  Somehow, things usually end up square on the second time around.  Assuming things are adjusted correctly, I have found bark pieces to be the problem about  90 percent of the time.
Daniel

dboyt

Skimming shouldn't be necessary, unless the log has moved due to stress.  I generally flip 180 after the first cut, and clamp the log tight against the back stops, though I occasionally check with a level before clamping just to make sure the stops are square.  If the track is level, that gets close enough, and is quicker than using a square.  A lot depends on the size and shape of the log.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

petefrom bearswamp

I'm a 180 guy and have very few problems.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: dboyt on October 07, 2014, 07:28:33 AM
Skimming shouldn't be necessary, unless the log has moved due to stress.  I generally flip 180 after the first cut, and clamp the log tight against the back stops, that gets close enough, and is quicker than using a square.

A lot of talk about using a square. The last time I used a square was several months ago when I checked the mill for square ;)
Once the mill is square I trust it to be square unless a cant comes out out of square then I look for what is causing that.

Making 90* turns seems to be the reason for using a square :P




A chunck of bark on a bed rail will put it out of square and is generaly noticable as soon as the cant is turned, watch as it turns, a chunck of bark will cause extra movment as it settles down.
(when I notice little Jo is raising both toe boards she saw movment)


Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Peter Drouin

Quote from: backwoods sawyer on October 07, 2014, 11:05:01 AM




A chunck of bark on a bed rail will put it out of square and is generaly noticable as soon as the cant is turned, watch as it turns, a chunck of bark will cause extra movment as it settles down.
(when I notice little Jo is raising both toe boards she saw movment)






smiley_thumbsup










A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

New Brunswick

 lot of talk about using a square. The last time I used a square was several months ago when I checked the mill for square ;)
Once the mill is square I trust it to be square unless a cant comes out out of square then I look for what is causing that.

Making 90* turns seems to be the reason for using a square :P




A chunck of bark on a bed rail will put it out of square and is generaly noticable as soon as the cant is turned, watch as it turns, a chunck of bark will cause extra movment as it settles down.
(when I notice little Jo is raising both toe boards she saw movement.


Pardon my ignorance here but are you saying turning 90 is some of the trouble? And who/what is little Jo?

beenthere

NB

It is when you turn 90° and have an unsawn side down on the bunks that getting the next cut square is where it can also easily be "out of square".
As I read, those that flip 180° after the first cuts get two parallel faces on the log. Then flip 90° and can easily check for square (with a square). Still can get off of square on that third cut, but not as critical as chasing  the "non-square" corners around the log/cant flipping 90° at each time. .. If that makes sense.

And, when you are putting in a "quote", keep the brackets that are placed when clicking on the Quote button. Then your "quote" words will show up as such and not be lost as in the last post. Hope that helps. Those brackets around the word [quote ] and [/quote ] --without the space-- are what are important.

And little Jo is backward sawyers 'sawyer' (she runs the mill and keeps him busy getting logs and carrying away lumber).   ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

backwoods sawyer

yes

Logs are uneven and when you have a round side down and are clamping to a round side I find that it takes time to fiddle with getting them square as you have to find that spot where the presure you are aplying to the uneven round serface. Clamp, bump up usualy helps roll the log that extra little it is out of square.

where when putting the cut face down on a even flat surface perialel to the saw the next cut will be square.

Now you have to cut surfaces to clamp solving the issue of clamping round logs square.

Little Jo is my Sawyer ;D
I give her a cut patteren for the logs and step back.
She took right to sawing, when the mill starts up she keeps the saw in the log allowing me to take care of logs, lumber and tailings and spend time with the customer as needed.

Having a second set of eyes on the log from a different angle will help with getting square if you like the 90* turn to keep from cutting thru as much bark.

When running the mill all of our comunication other than at the control panle is with hand signals this helps with positoning and squaring a log ect. 

seems been there read my post before I got it poasted ;D
Good point about chasing the corners even if I am Backwards ;)
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Shotgun

Quote from: beenthere on October 07, 2014, 02:05:15 PM

Clipped portion...

And, when you are putting in a "quote", keep the brackets that are placed when clicking on the Quote button. Then your "quote" words will show up as such and not be lost as in the last post. Hope that helps. Those brackets around the word [quote ] and [/quote ] --without the space-- are what are important.


It also helps if you leave the quoted poster's name, so that others will know who is quoted.
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

New Brunswick

Well thank you very much gentlemen for taking the time and commenting with your experience, knowledge and advice it is very much appreciated. I have not really been around any other fellow/gal band mill sawyers to see how they work their mills and logs, and find this Forestry Forum a really great place to gain insight on milling, logging, and other life lesson's as well....Tip of the hat to all!

Best Regards,

Joe

drobertson

Lots of good stuff here as usual,  I saw the second face 90 degrees to the first 95% of the time.  I believe there is no one set way to saw, just what works without too many battles.  Everyone develops their own techniques and have good methods to their madness. ;D
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Thank You Sponsors!