What can be used to power a big auger bit?

[TW]

I am involved in moving an old loghouse. We do some repairs to it as well and we have had to install lots of trunnels (or pins or whatewer you call them) to stabilize the walls.
The trunnel holes are 38 mm = 1 1/2" in diameter and they go through one log and halfways into the next so they are often about 40 cm =16"deep.

First we drilled with the old type auger with only a handle across the top. Then I made a big brace that can be cranked with both hands simultaneously. The problem is that it wastes a lot of time.
The big electric drill machines are a bit too expensive for me right now but they seem to be the only possibility.

How much power is needed?
Any other ideas?

[beenthere]

TW
Time is money. Either you are saving it or 'spending' it. Sounds like a decision you need to make, whether the cost of a power tool outweighs the 'waste of a lot of time', as you put it. It is work and time consumming. 
Any chances you have rental places like we do that would rent you a power drill on a week or month time period?

[slowzuki]

A 60$ big 1/2" or 5/8" low speed drill off ebay would get it done for you.  They have a big long side handle and single speed of 550 rpm usually.

[Jim_Rogers]

550 rpm is still to fast for a self feeding auger bit.
They are made to be turned by hand.
If you get a power drill, get a power drill bit.....

Jim Rogers

[Don P]

You'll need a 1/2" drill minimum. We've drilled hundreds of electric holes in the last few weeks with 1"ship augers that are 17" long. We typically drill floor to ceiling 1 or 2 holes for each electric box. I prefer the "nail eater" type as they can take a few nail hits, a lipped auger bit usually gets trashed if it hits steel.
The drill needs to be the slower speed as mentioned, I had a 1200 rpm large drill break a wrist badly when I got smacked into a steel C-channel. After that I researched and found a Timberwolf right angle drill, DeWalt makes it now. The drill is 2 speed and when in low it has a clutch that slips at 75 foot pounds. It is rather pricey but I figured the wrist cost me far more. Around here plumbers use them alot, prevents punching joists while holesawing.
I look at tool purchases as a money equation, they almost always pay off very fast. I usually rent bigger equipment and buy smaller stuff.

[sawdust]

I adapted a bit so it would fit onto an gas powered ice auger. Lots of power, I was drilling 2" holes in the ground down 5 feet. The problem I encountered was when the bit threaded itself into the ground like a wood screw. Needed a pipewrench to back it out.

sawdust

[slowzuki]

I know the 550 rpm is too fast but that is the speed most of the big bertha drills turn at unfortunatly.  An option that you could look as is a 1/2 chuck adpater onto 3/8 or 1/2 air rachet.  They turn about 90 rpm with some good wrist breaking torque.

I have a big rotary hammer that can be set to drill only and it has a clutch so you don't break a wrist but it only goes down to 400 rpm or so and it was expensive.

If you can't get the speed down, spade bits like to go fast and are cheap.  The quality of hole isn't as good in my expenience.  Maybe if you started the hole with the brace then spade drilled the rest keeping in mind you will have tearout on the other side.  Maybe this isn't an issue for the pinning work.

[Don P]

This is a link to the bits I like, they don't come larger than 1-1/4" though.

http://www.mygreenlee.com/products/det.cfm?id=4450&upc=30937

The timberwolf turns at 340rpm on low 1200 on high.

My Milwaukee Hole Hawg turns at 300, that is a nice adaptable case on that drill  ;)

The second review of the hole hawg is about right.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T16M/102-0109539-8545717?v=glance&n=228013

[TW]

Renting is not an option because we build in weekends. I will likely be hired for another similar project next summer so it may be worth buying before that project starts. There are not that many holes left on this project. I thought that it is time to start researching early as I am a slow decisionmaker.

Slowzuki
I wonder if air ratchets are mede for continous running? Do'nt they have a beating motion intended to get bolts loose?

Don P
Those nail eaters are not sold here and they are too small.
I wish electric tools were as cheap here as in that hole hawg advertisement. That is only about 200€. Only a little more expensive than the selfdestructing Chineese ones.

Sawdust
Gas powered ice augers are expensive as well. The idea seems good if I can find a second hand one.



Thanks for the input on rpm. I did not imagine that it has to be that low.

By the way. The log lift that I inquired about earlier is ready for the first big logs. We have already tested it on small ones. I think we will try to lift the first big ones next Sunday. I hope it works.

[slowzuki]

Some air rachets can run continuously, I think you are thinking of impact wrenches though.

How good of hole do you need? I recently bored a bunch of big holes using an extension, a hole saw on a light duty 1/2" drill and a chisel to chunk out the cores.

[barbender]

TW- I have been using my Dewalt 18v cordless to drill holes for those little log lifts I had on my log house post. Those are 3/4" and about 6" deep and just my cordless works fine on those.  I would think a 1/2" corded drill would work fine for the holes you are drilling as long as you use an auger bit designed for electric drills. I have a big milwuakee with the extended handle I plan on using when I drill all the holes for the wooden pins on our log house.  But, if I planned on doing a lot of this type of work like it sounds like you are, I might look at getting a Hole Hawg or something like that.

[TW]

Barbender
I have a 13 mm 400W Metabo corded drill and it is WAY too small, At least for the 1 1/2 auger bits that I have used. I can barely crank the brace by hand.

I am talking about quite many holes. I have drilled about 40 holes by hand so far and there are about 20 left on that house.

What is the difference between an auger bit designed for power drills and one desiugned for hand power?

[Don P]

TW,
I don't know about voltage or frequency there, or shipping, but if I can get you one here and ship it cheaper than you can get one there, PM me.

After bragging on my Timberwolf, it died  :'(. Got a new switch and brushes coming, we use forward and reverse alot. Rode the hawg all day, at one point I had the 4 foot long bit in it. Standing atop a log wall,that'll keep you awake. That left my Milwaukee compact hole shooter 1/2" as the screwgun. Compact is a misnomer, that single speed beast is half again larger than the hawg, with a bigger pipe handle and spins at 450. The wind down on that one is long. Seems real long when it grabs your coat (don't ask me how I know that).

Another thing to toss around, if I repair the timberwolf I'd probably be willing to part with it for about 1/3 price, the armature is coming up on replacement,the commutator is worn. It has hundreds of hours and may not be a bargain, just another thought. I will replace it at some point, that is the first choice big drill whenever we get one from the toolbox.

I went down and got my old brace bits to compare to my power bits. They are very similar, both have a threaded lead screw that is about the same pitch and count. The body of the power bits is stouter, especially as they get larger. I know the steel in those nail eaters is tough. I will admit to sawing the tapered square off a number of old bits and using them in power drills. The sharpening angle on a bit has more to do with its aggresiveness than the screw. I've calmed them down by sharpening a little more obtuse, a couple of degrees makes a big difference. More scraping action than digging if it is trying to screw itself too hard. Too obtuse and the lead screw will strip out of the wood and the bit will not self feed. Those are the 2 sides of the road, try to sharpen where you stay between the extremes.


I saw these tonight, the long ship augers are similar to what I use. They have a 1-1/2"
http://www.mytoolstore.com/milwauke/accaugr.html

[TW]

Don P
That was a kind offer but it would not work. We hawe 230 volt 50 hertz.

At least I am starting to know what to look for. I have to start looking if it is worth buying or if I have a good pay per hour of cranking.

Thanks for the information.

[TW]

I have looked at prizes for big angle drills of the type you propose.
They are from 600 euro and upwards. That is roundabout 700$. A young carpenter like me earns about
10 euro per hour before tax. That means that the machine costs about 2 weeks pay. Terrible.

People say that air ratchets are not made for continous running. Further they need a too big compressor.

Has anybody tried to make a big drill from a 3 phase motor that is geared down somehow?

[scsmith42]

tw - I wonder if there is an affordable converter that will convert your 230V 50hz into 240V 60 hertz?  If so, you may be better off to purchase one and then be able to purchase more affordable products?

[slowzuki]

I just bought a 1/2" makita drill that turn 550 rpm maximum and it cost about 170$ Canadian.  They also made one that was cheaper but single speed.  I think both are rated for 1.5" holes in wood.

[TW]

I have looked at those too, Both Makita and DeWalt. They cost from 300 euro (about 350 US $)and upwards over here. Though Both Jim Rogers and Don P say that 500 rpm is too fast.
Please can you post a short report on how it works when you have tested it for a while.
Is it about 700W like the ones sold here?

[slowzuki]

I'll have a look tonight, the one I bought has to squeezed hard to turn 500 rpm.  I bought it for drilling metal as my other 1/2 drill spins way too fast for larger bits.

Ok this is the one speed unit:
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=112121&Referrer=Kelkoo

Could wire to a cheap fan variac to get variable speed.  They are called the wrist busters here.

This is similar to what I bought, I got a keyed chuck and mine turns slower.
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/products.php?cat=Rotary%20Drills&source=kelkoo#MAKITADP4003

Hmm, finding drills in the UK is hard!  I'll keep trying.

[Don P]

That D handled Makita is a piece of  :  ;D I've burned up a few of the smaller drills trying to use big bits, its a workout for a big drill.

I looked deeper on one of Slowzuki's sites and saw this one.
Makita's TimberWolf
It should hold up and has the clutch.

[TW]

Don P
That makita timberwolf is one I have looked at. It costs 600 euro opr a bit more in Finland.

[TW]

A second thought.

If I had not consulted this forum I would probably have bought the D handled Makita or a quite similar one by another maker. Now I will not do that misstake. The salesmen say they are big enough but I trust your words that they are not.

Thanks for the warning Don P

A question about angled drills:
As the weight is not centered above the bit, doesn't this make drilling more difficult and increase the risk of breaking the drill?

[slowzuki]

The other thing I didn't mention is a big rotary hammer like a Makita HR3000C has a clutch and drill only mode (also a drill and hammer and a hammer only mode) and is variable speed from 250 to 700 rpm or so.

If you are gonna spend the big dollars this is the rig to get since you can use it for much more afterwards.

The single speed makita has the power to turn the bit but would really need a speed control to slow it down.  Without a clutch it earns its wristbreaker name.  They are usually used here for mixing drywall compound or cranking basketball nets up or down.

[hardworker]

Hi TW,
I used a milwaukee 3107 right angle drill to drive 1" x 18" bits 3/4" x 24" bits  1 1/4" x 6" bits .
I originally used it for electrical work , mixed tile mastic, but used it to build my sobon shed.
I'm sure it would drive larger bits. It's heavy, though.
It's a little different from the other milwaukee drill. You can see it on amazon.com.
It's around $250 here.  There's no clutch.  It's low speed and variable speed. That's what you really want IMHO, not just low speed.
As far as holding it and centering it, once you get going the bit is guided by the hole. The hard part is starting a hole that is plumb or going the way you want.
Aren't the logs green?  These drills can  put big holes in dried wood.

Jonathan

[TW]

I was offered a secondhand electric motor with a worm gear drive attached. That would be a start for a home made machine.

Is 50 or 60 rpm too slow for a 1 1/2" auger bit?