Gearmatic winch won't freespool after sitting

[madmari]

Went home for a couple days and came back to a winch that won't easily give up the cable on freespool. It'll go, but only if I put my whole carcass into it and then some. Also wants to winch in without actuating the lever. Holds good.
  I had covered the winch before leaving, but the wind blew like crazy and the tarp was not covering the winch upon my return and we had a short rain event. Could the bands have swollen? Was working fine before I left.

[jonesjco]

Could have a small amount of ice on the clutch bands causing them to interfere with the drum there is only supposed to be 10-15 thousands clearance between them a small amount of ice will cause this . Try hooking onto something and slipping the bands to warm them up see if that helps.  good luck!

[jocco]

Jones might be right but be very careful of gearmatic winching in buy it self. If it did not stop the day might not end well. Next fluid leaking inside can cause them to swell. But try what jones said first.

[Ed_K]

As said, try slipping it first. If it don't work readjust the clutch bands, I use a hacksaw blade to get clearance.

[Plankton]

Easy to pop the cover and take a look probably iced up or rust jamming them up.

Could be you have leaking gasket on the gear side got water in there and froze the gear oil up making it hard to freespool.

They seem to be very sensitive to weather,  some days mine freespools easy and slips slightly winching in, others it's a fight to freespool but winches great. Once in a blue moon it works perfectly.

[madmari]

I'll try those things. I had a Gearmatic before, Eaton winch made me forget all the tricks involved with the Problematic. Was working perfect until we had the rain, so I probably have ice. This wet one day, sub-zero the next is raising hell.

[madmari]

Wish I had my TJ 230D back. Never should have let her go.

[Plankton]

This wet one day, sub-zero the next is raising hell.

I hear you on that one, my landing, skid roads and the 5 miles of dirt road to the job are solid ice at least an inch thick that isnt going anywhere.

[62oliver]

I have a gearmatic 119 and have wondered if drilling some fair sized holes around the cover would help vent condensation out of the brake/clutch area? I did some work on mine last summer when I got it and was suprised how rusty and cruddy it was in there, I keep mine covered and it works great, but I'm just playing around.

[coxy]

I have a gearmatic 119 and have wondered if drilling some fair sized holes around the cover would help vent condensation out of the brake/clutch area? I did some work on mine last summer when I got it and was suprised how rusty and cruddy it was in there, I keep mine covered and it works great, but I'm just playing around.

don't waste your time I have one with 5  1in holes  and I think is worse then before

[62oliver]

OK, thanks!!

[coxy]

if its a 119 you will get water in there no matter what you do it will run past the drum where the cable is that don't seal if you take the cover off with the brake bands out you can see day light around the drum

[madmari]

I pulled the cover and the inside was dry and clean. The guy I bought this from said the winch had just been rebuilt and was not lying. All the bands are new, and subsequently tight.
   I tried "burning" by slipping the lever from freespool to brake while pulling off a tree. No help- still freespools very hard.
  I see the cams inside for adjustment. Which band do I loosen?

[ga jones]

The freespool adjustment is an Allen head on top of the housing. Not inside the cover. It's just a spring that puts pressure on the band.

[ga jones]

I've seen guys that couldn't get the freespool adjusting screw out change the bands and ruin the spring in the process. The screw is in a bad spot it gets water in it and rusts fast. I've drilled and taped 3 of them on different machines.

[Plankton]

If your clutch bands are to tightly adjusted pull the outer band off by loosening the nuts on the cams and rotating them flat side towards bands. Then adjust the inner band most guys around here say hacksaw blade, I went a hair over that because in freespool it would pull back the cable slightly.

Replace the outer band and adjust the same.

Make sure you have a brake adjustment spring first before trying to adjust it, sounds dumb but I Broke Off Two hex Sockets And Started drilling The adjusting screw out before I looked a little closer and there was no spring or anything under it haha can't fix stupid

[ga jones]

The correct tolerance for clutch band is .010-.015 thousandths. The spring for the brake band adjustment should be there if it's a model 119. If not someone else most likely removed it because they couldn't get the screw out either plankton..

[jonesjco]

if your free spool spring isn't too tight check to see if the clutch lever inside the winch is turning free it is the part in the center of the winch that engages the secondary clutch band it has the clutch cylinder in it. if it is not free it wont allow the secondary clutch to completely disengage. If you have the side cover off hook the lines back up to it and put your control in free spool position with the input shaft in neutral if you pull out the cable and the input shaft turns you are getting interference between the clutches and the drum. They are supposed to have at least 10 thousands clearance but as a lot of people say a hacksaw blade will be ok too it is a lot more clearance than the book recommends but better too much than not enough. you will have to remove the outside band to check the inside one. I have seen that clutch lever sticking cause the problem you describe many times good luck

[madmari]

This is a model 9- looks real nice inside. The bands are all clean, fresh and it worked good until the real cold weather started. I expected to see ice inside, but nothing. I'll pull it apart again and adjust accordingly. No free spool is not very efficient >:(

[lumberjack48]

  If the winch worked when you parked it, theres nothing wrong with it. I ran gearmatic's for 30 yrs, this would be a very Monday problem.
I hook on to a tree, while driving away slip the brake band. Then winch back holding the skidder brakes on, slipping the shoes a little on the winch.
Do this 4 times or so, then do the same while your skidding until it works.

[treeslayer2003]

The correct tolerance for clutch band is .010-.015 thousandths. The spring for the brake band adjustment should be there if it's a model 119. If not someone else most likely removed it because they couldn't get the screw out either plankton..

that is the book setting but i had to run mine much looser to have it work right.........large screwdriver blade was the tolerance lol. i wonder if replacement bands are not quite true

[plasticweld]

This is a model 9- looks real nice inside. The bands are all clean, fresh and it worked good until the real cold weather started. I expected to see ice inside, but nothing. I'll pull it apart again and adjust accordingly. No free spool is not very efficient >:(

I had this problem and it turned out to be the brake line hose that had softened up on the inside not allowing the brake fluid to flow back to the master.  I had spoke with Harold's on the phone can got all of the things to check.  I hooked everything back up to make watch it work, as it made no sense to me why it was winding in and was at some times almost impossible to pull out.  I remember having to replace brake hoses on my pick up...the brakes hanging up and this seemed to be a similar problem...Sure enough one new hose later it worked fine.  To test the theory on yours take the cover off and reinstall the line that actuates the cylinder that moves the clutch and see if it is returning. If it does not pull out or starts to wind in after cracking the fitting on the top of the cylinder, you probably have other problems.  If in as in my case it all of sudden releases then you have found the culprit.  Best of luck

[madmari]

jonesjco wins the prize for Gearmatic Forensics. I owe him many frothy brewings for his wisdom on the phone and ability to diagnose the issue. The guy is a Gearmatic genius. The problem was a stuck clutch lever- too much thick grease would not allow the lever to return, which keeps the clutch shoes engaged; not a lot, but enough to make freespooling a bear.
  After removing the lever and secondary clutch drum, I sprayed the whole shaft with WD-40, cleaned it and put it back together and Viola! Works perfect!
  Many thanks for all the advice from all of you. La Vie de Bois!

[madmari]

Clutch release started acting up again, making a hard pull on freespool. Finally had enough and tore down the winch again. Found the clutch slave had a ring of rust inside making it stick so the clutch wouldn't release. I cleaned it with some WD40 and steel wool and hoped for the best. I got the best. Works flawlessly now- what a pleasure.
  No fun working on a winch in a snowstorm and single digits in the dark, but it was well worth the effort and gain in efficiency. My old shoulders could not take yarning on that cable any longer.

[Logger RK]

Any idea what that slave cyl kit cost's. I just ordered one for my C5 & "my good deal" price went from $49 to $59. That was after I didn't have any firewood to sell. So just wonder what prices are else where. And who else might it be available from? Not much to The Kit  :(

[madmari]

Not much to it. I suppose a new rubber is all it would take. I didn't measure this one, but looks to be 1". There is a spring underneath the piston, but that looked good.

[millcreek40]

Is there anything under the spring like a piece of Teflon  or just the spring

[madmari]

I was looking  in thru the hose hole, all I could see was the piston bottom and the spring. I assume there is a rubber seal on the piston, but I didn't remove it.

[millcreek40]

Under the Allen screw, for the freespool adjustment   Is there suppose to be anything under the spring???

[madmari]

Dunno. That screw is to set tension on the brake band so when you do get the drum to freespool, it won't overspin into a rats nest. I am going to check mine when I get back to set the tension. This attachment will help.

[Ed_K]

 I had to drill mine out,as it wouldn't turn. When I replaced the allen screw I had to put a short piece of round stock under it as the screw was to short. I wanted it sticking out a little to put a lock nut on.

[kb88]

I got  119 on a 380 tj and I have been fighting with it all winter. It's been wet here and now its down to -1. It takes about an hour of using it to get it to work right. I wish it was easier to take apart and dry out. It makes for a long day pulling on that cable.

[madmari]

It's like using a dull saw. The time spent fixing the winch right make your days more productive, saving time (and your arms) in the end.
If your winch works good after an hour of use, maybe your bands are just too tight. I set mine by eye, but set them pretty loose. Works really good, so I guess I was close.
  Maybe water got in the clutch too. The main shaft can get sticky. I cleaned off all the grease with WD40 and run it dry. Brake cleaner works good to clean it- no residue.

[Plankton]

With all these gearmatic threads they should be named problematics. Mine lost all pressure to the clutch today after a few turns, Brake side is still good so I think the clutch cylinder blew apart inside...just rebuilt it a few months ago. To dang cold to think about wrenching today so I went home thermometer reads -1 and wind is blowing like crazy!

[HiTech]

I know you shouldn't have to do this but I put a mud flap over my 119 when not using. Put the mud flap over it and place a chunk of wood on it to keep it from blowing off and it works. Keeps the water out. I have always been going to make a holder for the mud flap but as yet haven't.

[madmari]

"There was a little girl with a little curl
In the middle of her forehead
When she was good, she was very good
But when she was bad she was torrid"

The Gearmatic girl. When it works, it'll pull it's guts out.
When it doesn't, it'll pull yours out.

Just too many moving parts that have to align with the planets to accomplish a simple task.

[Ed_K]

I learned a long time ago to keep mine covered. I have a tarp doubled twice over it and only slide it off enough to keep the cable from catching it when winching.

[kb88]

I pulled mine in the shop yesterday I couldn't take it anymore. Pulled the cover off and adjusted everything and now it works like new. Sure makes things nicer when you can pull the cabble out.

[madmari]

I fixed mine with an aluminum flashlight held in my teeth in a snowstorm with single digit temps. Still worth it.

[kb88]

I got lucky I was working 2 miles from the shop. But it was -5 when I drove it here.

[47sawdust]

If you fellas need a cover for your winch try a piece of rubber roofing.Won't blow away as easy as a tarp and can be easily cut to shape.

[millcreek40]

I keep my winch covered with a piece of skidder tube. Works great

[62oliver]

I cut a plastic barrel, cut the slot for cable at an angle to make it harder for wind to blow off.

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39936/IMG_3534.JPG

[Ed_K]

 That is a good idea  8) .