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Looooong shot stump ID pic

Started by Piston, June 03, 2013, 09:55:05 AM

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Piston

Okay, so I know this is a long shot, but what kind of stump can last this long? 



I came across this stump on my land in NH.  It hasn't been logged since the early '70s according to my grandfather's memory.  As best we know, no one ever cuts trees off this property, although I know it's always possible.  This stump is way back from the nearest road/trail. 

What kind of trees have stumps that last seemingly forever?  I remember reading "Reading the Forested Landscape" by Tom Wessels, and he talked about stumps that sometimes last many decades, and how to possibly identify them, but I can't remember which ones they were. 

??? ??? ???


I realize this is a longshot, but.... :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

clww

I have some old hemlock stumps on our property from logging in the 1960s. I think cedar lasts a long time, too.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
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beenthere

I have stumps from prior to 1965 (before I came to this land), and several that look like that one in the pic from the late '60's and in the 70's (trees I cut down).

See if you can cut some specimens from that stump and get a smooth cross-section from a semi-solid place to identify the ring and cell structure. Maybe too far gone for that.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Piston

Quote from: beenthere on June 03, 2013, 11:03:41 AM
See if you can cut some specimens from that stump and get a smooth cross-section from a semi-solid place to identify the ring and cell structure. Maybe too far gone for that.

Shoot, I'm not even sure I can FIND that stump again  :D

I'll give it a shot, I'm going back up there in a few weeks to get my "fix" of being in complete solitude and the peace and quiet of mountain life.   ;D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

KBforester

Trees are good.

DRB

I have a stump in my backyard from a Cedar.  It was probably cut about 1900 I know the property was a pasture by 1937. There is still solid wood in it you can recognize as Cedar.  I see cedar stumps all the time with springboard notches and no one uses those anymore.  Most were cut before 1940 I would suspect.  Cedar stumps will last over a 100 years.

curdog

Hemlock is a good possibility. It looks like some hemlock branches on the ground in the picture ( not 100%sure since I'm on my phone) . Surely there is some regeneration from the tree in the surrounding area. I'm not really familiar with all of the tree species of the NE, but my guess is hemlock.

Piston

I had no idea stumps could last that long!  So much for cutting the trees down to clear some land and letting the stumps rot away, I'd be dead before I had a nice lawn.  :D

I do believe there is a lot of hemlock in the lower area of the property, near the stream.  I'm not positive on the I.D. of hemlock though, I sometimes get confused whether it's some type of pine or not? 

Here are some more pics of the area, are these a lot of hemlock?



  

  

  

  

  

 

I tried uploading them as larger files but these small pics are all that came through.
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

thecfarm

Hard for me to tell on the stump and what you have for trees. Get a good book to help on the identification.
I have a real nice book put out by the state of Maine Forestry Dept. Helps me a lot. About those stumps and a lawn. I am clearing a grown up pasture.Takes about 5-7 years for those stumps to rot. By rot I mean easy to get out without getting a root ball the size of a car hood and as thick too. After so many years I dig them out I get just the stump. I say dig,most time I just hit them  and they come right out.Helps out on not getting so many rocks too. And the hole is alot smaller to fill in too. Seem like you have a back hoe too?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Piston

Quote from: thecfarm on June 04, 2013, 06:38:31 AM
Hard for me to tell on the stump and what you have for trees. Get a good book to help on the identification.
I have a real nice book put out by the state of Maine Forestry Dept. Helps me a lot. About those stumps and a lawn. I am clearing a grown up pasture.Takes about 5-7 years for those stumps to rot. By rot I mean easy to get out without getting a root ball the size of a car hood and as thick too. After so many years I dig them out I get just the stump. I say dig,most time I just hit them  and they come right out.Helps out on not getting so many rocks too. And the hole is alot smaller to fill in too. Seem like you have a back hoe too?

Ray,
That's correct, I do have a backhoe as well, however I prefer not to dig out the stumps for the most part.  A lot of what I'm clearing is on a hill, with not much vegetation on the ground to hold the soil together, so I worry a little about erosion.  Also, I didn't realize how much of a mess it makes to dig the larger stumps up.  I do have a PTO stumpgrinder for the tractor though which is what I've been using, it works really well and by the time the roots/rest of stump rots away, there will be plenty of other root structure to hold the soil together.  Not to mention I don't have to deal with the stump ever again  8)

It's funny, because this stump that I posted a pic of, is one of very few stumps around.  I've walked a lot of that land (right around 50 acres) and have only come across a very small handful of stumps that are still visible.   ???
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

thecfarm

I did forget to mention that I am still finding cherry so called stumps too. I get digging and smoothing a place out and I find a root ball. It's from a cherry tree. Oak stumps will last for years too.
With my grown up pasture I use a cheapy push lawnmower to keep the bushes down and just in a few years the grass wil come back. Had a guy up the road that knew that my Father and me was planting grass in the areas that we was clearing.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

bill m

I have seen White Pine stumps last that long and longer.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

banksiana

I agree with bill m.  A burned red or white pine stump will last a very long time,  my guess would be one of those.

bill m

By the looks in your pictures I would say you have a mix of Hemlock, White Pine, and Spruce.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

caz


Ron Wenrich

You can still find the occasional chestnut stump in my area.   
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Piston

Quote from: bill m on June 04, 2013, 05:12:55 PM
By the looks in your pictures I would say you have a mix of Hemlock, White Pine, and Spruce.

That sounds pretty much exactly what I've seen.  I know there is a lot of white pine, and spruce, and from what I've googled, it seems like I remember seeing many trees that look like Hemlock. 

I do have the Audobon Society Tree I.D. app on my phone, and bring that with me everywhere, it's been very helpful identifying trees.  However, I think I just grouped the hemlocks in with the spruce in my past "walkabout's"

There is also a large area of hardwoods, mostly oaks, ash, birch, and beach.  I'm sure other's that I don't know the I.D. of yet.  It's pretty cool how on one side of a stone wall, I'll find all white pine, with very little on the forest floor, then 10' over on the other side of the stone wall, it's all hardwoods. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

BaldBob

Quote from: bill m on June 04, 2013, 05:12:55 PM
  It's pretty cool how on one side of a stone wall, I'll find all white pine, with very little on the forest floor, then 10' over on the other side of the stone wall, it's all hardwoods. 
That would be the result of past silvicultural treatment of the the land. The area that is in White pine had previously been clear cut (and perhaps planted).  It may have even been converted to agriculture and allowed to revert to forest. The hardwood type was allowed to go to climax for the site without heavy harvests that allowed in too much sunlight.

g_man

The hemlocks are the ones with the small cones ( 3/4" - look on the ground too) They have short softish needles, much softer than spruce and a little softer than fir. They have two different length needles along the same twig (you have to look close). Older trees have rough bark like a hardwood. The branches hang down rather than curve up. Tops are more rounded not like the spire of a fir or some spruce.

Tarm

White pine. My oak woods has hundreds of them. Many of them are waist high from the days of the crosscut saws. Most also have some burn marks from the wide spread fires after the Big Cutover. When a white pine is cut the sapwood fills up with pitch. This make the wood very rot resistent. The heartwood rots out in time so the stumps are usually hollow in the middle.

Piston

Quote from: Tarm on June 07, 2013, 09:28:59 PM
White pine. My oak woods has hundreds of them. Many of them are waist high from the days of the crosscut saws. Most also have some burn marks from the wide spread fires after the Big Cutover. When a white pine is cut the sapwood fills up with pitch. This make the wood very rot resistent. The heartwood rots out in time so the stumps are usually hollow in the middle.

That's interesting.  I always thought that the reason old siding seemingly lasted forever on old barns that never had paint/treatment on them, was because it was all made from the old heartwood in the trees?  I had read that when you use sapwood for siding it will not last very long? 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

BaldBob

The difference in pine sapwood used as siding and pine sapwood that remains in a stump that is rot resistant is the pitch that oftentimes wells up in the sapwood of pine stumps, as was pointed out by Tarm. If you are really interested in what species the stump is, cut into the most solid part of the stump and provide us with good closeups of both the end grain and side grain if they are still intact. We may be able to ID it for you.

bill m

I have flush cut pine stumps of trees that had been cut over 40 years ago and the heartwood is still solid with the smell of fresh cut pine.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Piston

Quote from: bill m on June 08, 2013, 07:51:14 AM
I have flush cut pine stumps of trees that had been cut over 40 years ago and the heartwood is still solid with the smell of fresh cut pine.

I'll bring my saw next time I go up there, and if I can find it I'll cut out into it and see what it looks like.
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

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