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Blade for Cutting Nails

Started by Steve_M, August 19, 2005, 12:02:02 PM

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Steve_M

I need to cut about 2000lf of 1/2 x6 out of some old barn beams that are full of nails.  I cut a simmilar amount for the same customer earlier this year out of the same beams and went through about 25 WM Double hard blades.    Customer paid for the blades no problem---but I still didn't come out very well for the time spent.

I would like to find out if there is a better blade to use this time around.  I know they cut nails with pallet dismanteling equipment, would these work on my WM??

Steve
2001 WM Super LT40 Electric and WM Twin Blade Edger, just a part timer custom sawing and cutting salvage logs.

Furby

The blades used to dismantle pallets are usually metal cutting blades that don't cut wood that great.
Munksford blades go through nails great, but not sure how they hold up to that many nails.
I have a pile of beams with the same problem so I'll be watching to hear what everyone else says. ;D

fstedy

You might try calling the blade manf. and speak to a applications engineer. I know the larger companies have them available try Starrett or Simmonds they will probally reccomend a carbide tipped blade but they are expensive but so is 25 WM blades. You can find their phone #'s on the net.
Timberking B-20   Retired and enjoying every minute of it.
Former occupations Electrical Lineman, Airline Pilot, Owner operator of Machine Shop, Slot Machine Technician and Sawmill Operator.
I know its a long story!!!

Fla._Deadheader


Did the WM blades get damaged beyond sharpening use ???

   Furby is right. The Munks blades will cut metal. You will find a burr of metal on the tooth, that can be pulled loose with pliers or filed away, and then keep sawing.

  Why not pull all the nails you can before sawing ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Tom

I've sawed for a company that makes flooring from reclaimed SYP.  They have 3 men designated as nail pullers.  They are good too.   They use a very small cats paw, a claw hammer, a hatchet and metal detector.  All the while I sawed for them, I hit metal only in two beams and that was because an outside individual moved beams around and these guys didn't know it.

To get rid of nails, you can't break them off.  If you do, you have to go in there after them.  To go into a beam requires that you cut away wood.  If you are marketing oriented, you can sell these "bruises" as "distressed". 

If you do the job right, you will not hit many nails.  It's a lot of work, but that is why the stuff costs so much.

Just cutting the wood proposes problems of its own.  That old softwood is usually full of pitch and gums blades.  You have enough on your hands trying to keep the saw going without worrying about nails.

I find that a slow sawing rate gives the blade a chance to cut through a nail rather get the nail hooked deep in the face of the tooth, breaking the tooth.  If you suspect nails, you might try this approach.

Nail removers

The link above shows some of the tools these fellows used.  The first one, the Nail Exhumer, was the most popular.

These small cats claws are good for removing the small nails that most cats claws can't get a bite on.  Experience will teach technique.

Sometimes a tool will break but that's just "the breaks". :D   If you will sharpen the claw of a ripping hammer, it will double as a small hatchet.  Be sure to put the bevel on the inside so that the outside will still lay flush to the wood and you can still use it for nails.

Shop these tools.  I've found the same tool at Harbor Freight for $9.00 and on sale for $2.00 that these other outlets sell for $24.00.  I've not found the quality to differ.

Steve_M

FDH

I am not sure how the old WM blades will sharpen.  I ran them as far as I could, I would cut, debur, cut some more, debur, cut again untill they wouldnt go any more--many boards would show burn marks.  I really didn't think they were worth sending into resharp so I am holding them untill I get my own sharpener.

I pulled lots of nails, but they are old cut nails that have rested off just below the surface in most cases.  We are talking maybe 50-100 nails in a 6x12x10 beam.  They are soft and cut off ok but when you cut them sideways it hurts a bit.

I do have a box of Munks that have been used once and not sharpened that I could us up.   

Steve
2001 WM Super LT40 Electric and WM Twin Blade Edger, just a part timer custom sawing and cutting salvage logs.

Tom

It's those that are rusted off just below the surface that are worth going after.   Sometimes a pair of needle nose pliers will do it.  It's either someone taking the time to clean up the material or foot the bill for blades.  It's not just the blades that cost.  The problem follows the boards and the metal really gets expensive when run through planers and moulders.

mike_van

Steve, years back I got a blade from Suffolk just for one job, the customer bought it, about 65.00 if I remember. It probably cut 100 nails off, and was still o.k. Noisey, but still cut straight - Give them a call, can't hurt to ask -
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

dail_h

   Steve,
   I gotta agree with Tom,denailing is the secret. I've sawed lots 'n lots of beams,we tried most every kind of blade at the time,think we finaly settled on Lennox,but I believe that Munks are better. We also used a chisel,and a variety of pliers and nippers,whatever works.
   I will be starting a beam resawing job pretty soon,regular sawing rate +10%+ denailing cost/hr plus damaged blades. The customer wasn't satisifed with the last guy,I wrote my own ticket
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
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Brad_S.

I talked with a blade supplier about this once and they said it's not the blade that is a problem, it's the blade speed our mills run at. Cutting metal requires a slower blade speed.
They said what Tom said. Go slower.
That contradicts what Cook's said in one of their news letters, faster is better, that way only a handful of teeth are affected, leaving others sharp.
So basically, this post was no help at all, eh? :D
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

rebocardo

One thing I have found that works great is vise grips. If you put it on a flat bar while prying you will not mark the wood. Once you get it going you can move to a cats claw.

Furby

I use channel locks that way. ;D

I can see where you are coming from Tom, it would be a lot easier in the long run to dig out one nail, rather then two or three pieces.
I have several beams/logs from the old part of the house that are just as Steve M has described. At first I had planned to mill them, then decided I didn't want to pull any more nails. ::) Considered trying to cut through the cut nails but now I'm thinking all but the best ones may end up as firewood. ;D

MemphisLogger

I second the suggestion that removing the nails is best.

I've resawn alot of "heartpine" beams and tried using a variety of bimetal blades. The only thing good about them was that they didn't retain "burrs" or "hanger-ons" after hitting nails. Othetrwise, they didn't seem to keep their sharp any better than Monkeys.

I think the bigger concern than blade life is the impact that hitting nails has on bearings--imagine your tension jumping up several hundred pounds everytime the blade hits a nail. I went through 2 sets of pillow blocks on the drive side before I made the connection and switched to an oil-bath bearing.

I also made a new rule that customers completely de-nail their timbers before bringing them to me or risk my rejecting them when I find metal in them.     
Scott Banbury, Urban logger since 2002--Custom Woodworker since 1990. Running a Woodmizer LT-30, a flock of Huskies and a herd of Toy 4x4s Midtown Logging and Lumber Company at www.scottbanbury.com

JP

 :-[ Jest finished a job splitting 20 200+ year old beams on my Norwood  23 hp. to be used for rafters in a re constructed barn-Customer claimed they were "clean' . split 2 with no prob. then split a 3" cut nail-- kept going and hit another 15" on----blade started to clime out of the log so had to back out, chg blade and finish it.
The rest of the beams we pulled anything we saw in the cut line and my helper watched (carfully) as I cut and we stopped and pulled anything in the line//
finished the job in 10 hrs and 6 blades// ( Customer said he would buy a blade per cut////)

(blades were WMs)--one cut or skinned 6 nails and got through --pushed like H--- and smoked the last 8 ft   JP
I got some pictures if I can figure how to show them.
see last 6 pics at
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4231442&a=31585418&f=
Norwood lm2000,Newholland 30 hp tractor, log carrier/winch, log arch  JP

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