540B Grapple Skidder Hydraulic Woes

tjjackson17 · April 16, 2017, 07:14:51 AM

My husband and I are proudly indebt 25,000 for this beast (I promptly have called it The Scorpion since it was unloaded from it's haul from Indiana to it's new home of Illinois last August) and that's exactly what it has been; a beast. Up until just little over a month ago.

The grapple tongs are obviously aftermarket and say ESCO on them. There is four hydraulic lines back there (I know the John Deere parts catalogue part breakdown only shows two for the factory grapple tongs) but they were all torn up and leaking horribly. So I took the lines off and embarked to Napa to get four new lines made.

Well, since having put the lines back on, we have had nothing but hell with this monster. I believe that it is getting air somewhere on the suction side. (my hard headed husband swears the pump is going out and is ready to yank it and somehow put a pump he's pulled from a 440A parts skidder back at home on it).

But we cannot for the life of us figure out this beast. Which line is the suction side? Where is this sump screen on the tranni? Please, somebody help! We are going on being behind 2 bank payments on this mother!!

jdeere540a · April 16, 2017, 08:38:27 AM

have you tried changing the two trans. filters? there is one on the left side and one in the back of the trans. the 540b I ran would get sluggish when they neede to be changed. if its a new machine to u i would start by giving a good service because u dont know how well it was cared for by the old owners.

tjjackson17 · April 16, 2017, 08:45:08 AM

When you first start the machine up, you can make about one trip and then you lose steering, blade and grapple unless you keep it in fourth gear with the peddle to the floor. It's been about a month ago we changed the filter on the left side of the tranni. Didn't know bout the one of. The back. Woul the one on the back be the screen we were told about?

jdeere540a · April 16, 2017, 08:58:46 AM

the one on the back is another cartridge filter like the one on the left. I have neever seen the screen but maybe someone else could help with that. it sounds like you have some contaminants in your oil like dirt or clutch peciese or some thing. my 540 lost is steering and blade the only thing it would do is move back and forth but all hydraulic functions would not work. I let it sit for a day and came back to test the pump pressure and every think worked and has worked since. I think i had some dirt stuck in a relief valve.

teakwood · April 16, 2017, 09:38:07 AM

If its the same as a A, the screen is on the right side of the oil filter. the one filter on the left side of the tranny. its a steel pipe going in the tranny bolted on with 2 9/16 bolts, i think. take the filter out and then get to that pipe, unscrew (its uncomfortable but doable) and get the screen out, its a long tube screen, probably clogged. mine was 80% clogged. first clean that screen and put new filters on before you go into the pump
Here is a foto of the back filterhousing, right above the left steering cylinder

snowstorm · April 16, 2017, 09:58:53 AM

you say it all started when you put new hoses on? napa isnt always the best place to buy hoses. were the hoses flat faced o ring and they sold you jic??? you have them in the wrong place?? as far as esco i dont know about there grapples but there bucket teeth were the best you could buy

tjjackson17 · April 16, 2017, 10:10:59 AM

There isn't a spot for a filter in the back of the tranni above the left steer cylinder. This steel pipe to get to the screen, do we take the filter out to get to it? Or, on our skidder, just to the right of the filter, there is a circular plug that has a half inch drive ratchet head opening in it. Is that a drain plug or where the screen is?

tjjackson17 · April 16, 2017, 10:28:33 AM

Update. We just pulled the screen and there was barely anything on it. So it's not clogged. But, there's quite a bit of metal bits in the screen, in the opening for the screen and in the ten gallon of hydraulic fluid that drained out when pulling the screen

teakwood · April 16, 2017, 10:35:47 AM

I can't help you any further with that, also don't know where there could be another filter because i don't know the B model. But we have lots of good mechanics and some B owners here on the FF who will help!!!

Maine logger88 · April 16, 2017, 10:52:10 AM

The only hydraulic filters on a b are up front behind the grill and the one on the left side of the trans plus the screen. I hope you had a bucket ready when you pulled the screen. Was it metal on the screen or clutch fiber? As snowstorm said I would look into the hoses make sure there's no blockage or it's not collapsing since that's when the trouble started when you replaced those.

ohiowoodchuck · April 16, 2017, 01:34:42 PM

I'd vote air in it or the hoses. Your overthinking it. Go back and check over your hoses because like said earlier. The problem didn't start till you changed them.

mike_belben · April 17, 2017, 12:10:09 AM

Is there any chance the grapple rotator had a case drain line that was mixed up? Im not familiar with the machine but that would send a lot of oil back to the tank.

Maybe try cracking the lines and cycling the graplle to see if it sputters a lot of air? I have my doubts about them being related. Any air coming from the grapple control would exhaust to tank and degas there.

Is the oil tank low or have some trash blocking the outlet? pump whining when this occurs? Powershift transmissions tend to be selected by a linkage to a valve spool. Are your linkages all sloppy and selecting half way between two speeds?

I understand youre broke but get a service manual CD off ebay stat and get some pressure gauges on there.

Logger RK · April 17, 2017, 06:00:13 AM

Where you careful not to get any dirt in the new hoses you put on? Years ago we changed a hose on a Hydro Ax 511 and not taking the time to cap the hose ends before pushing it back were the other went through. We learned a valuable lessen. Machine moved about 10 feet and drive motor went bad.

NWP · April 17, 2017, 09:55:58 PM

I've had a 540A with similar problems. It is usually when it's low on hydraulic oil. It doesn't have to be very low to cause problems.

tjjackson17 · April 18, 2017, 03:55:17 AM

We drained all the oil from the Skidder, and after finding the metal heavily in the oil, with the drain plugs still out, we ran ten gallons of diesel fuel through from the hydraulic oil filler neck to flush the system. We then changed all the filters and filled with new oil. It wasn't 100% working but it ran ten times better than it had been. But it eventually settled to running worse.

We started poking around with the selective control valve back behind the cab and made the discovery that the six valves that go in back there are all done for. The rubber o-ring like pieces that are made into the valves have almost all completely deteriorated and are falling off. And while back there messing with those valves, when we went to take one out, a lot of air came out. Does anybody know anything more about the selective control valve that might help us out??

snowstorm · April 18, 2017, 06:40:32 AM

the valve is done because the o rings are bad??? never heard of o rings that couldnt be replaced. you will be money ahead if you find a local deere tec to come fix this. throwing parts at a problem gets real pricey real fast.

coxy · April 18, 2017, 06:57:44 AM

Quote from: snowstorm on April 18, 2017, 06:40:32 AM
the valve is done because the o rings are bad??? never heard of o rings that couldnt be replaced. you will be money ahead if you find a local deere tec to come fix this. throwing parts at a problem gets real pricey real fast.

x2

U.P mich · April 18, 2017, 02:28:55 PM

Lots of times in a situation like your having it ends up being a stuck hydraulic valve/spool. Failing, stuck or dirty pressure relief valve. Or something along those lines. I've had many issues like that with my equipment over the years. A good set of pressure gauges will get this problem solved as you can eliminate things systematically based on your pressure readings. That is if you know your hydraulic pressure specs for the machine. A good service tech should be able to tell you that over the phone. Best of luck to you.

ohiowoodchuck · April 18, 2017, 04:54:33 PM

I don't get it everything worked before you changed out the lines and now after changing the lines, nothing works so to speak. When you disassembled the valves you said it had air, that would be a clue. I'll say this, I never thought you needed to bleed hydraulics even after working on them in a industrial setting for 15 years but after owning a 440b for less then a year. I can tell you what a world of difference it makes. Put it all back together and start from the beginning. Even if you have to crack a line while you cycling the grapple could do wonders.