Felling a Tree - Poorly

[WDH]

I had a big loblolly pine that succumbed to the drought and the pine beetles.  As tree was an old one (maybe 80 years old), I wanted to fell it and saw up the boards for a customer that wants to build a 4 board horizontal fence. 

Rule # 49 in felling a tree - If the tree has an old fence wired to it from many decades ago, and if you saw it down above the old fence wire, then be sure to get the saw above the old fence wire  :-\.  This is only is a problem with a brand new chain.  With an old chain, it is never a problem  . 

The other issue besides old wire was that it was leaning the wrong way back over the property line which was only about 5' behind the tree.  My goal was to make the face cut, then make the back cut and wedge the tree over so that it would fall on my side of the line.  The problem happened on the back cut when I discovered that I was not high enough on the tree to clear the wire.  Stupid mistake. An awful grinding sound along with a grabby/jerky saw was the result.  I tried to keep going now as I was at the point of no return as the wire was deep in the tree.  I pounded in two wedges before it became clear that I could not get through the wire.  I tried to go a little higher on the back cut to clear the wire, after messing up the original back cut, but to no avail.  The tree sat back slightly on the wedges as the old back cut merely closed.  What a mess, and a very dangerous situation to boot.  This was late yesterday afternoon, so I quit to think about the situation. 

Last night as I lay in bed contemplating what a pitiful mess I had made and after reliving the event over and over to assess where I screwed it up, I came up with several ideas:

1).  Leave it for the next storm to blow over.  No.  Ticking time bomb.

2).  Go above old face and back cut and start over.  No.  Not enough hinge left and a good way to get killed.

3).  Use the tractor.  Attach several tow straps to the tree using a tall ladder to get as high as possible to attach the straps.  No.  Tree sitting dangerously.  Would be a weird scene for the Investigators when they found me under a ladder, under a tree, dead.

4).  Use the tractor forks or bucket to reach as high as possible and push the tree over.  No.  Dead top would break out and kill me.

5).  Attach some blocks to the tree with screws and use a jack to lift the tree up and over to the intended felling spot.  Hmmmm

So I built a contraption this morning.  However, did not work.  Screws just pulled out of the wet pine wood.



 

Side view.



 

So, next plan was to cut a slot out of the back of the tree for the jack to sit in, sacrificing the wedges.



 



 

Done.



 

A lesson in how-not-to-do-it  .

[beenthere]

edit:
Anxious Glad to hear about 1) how you worked it out.   ;D

[bill m]

And #2

[mikeb1079]

do you have any anchor points to tie a winch or come-along to?  guessing not but just thought i'd throw it out there....

[JohnW]

On the other hand, beautiful.

[WDH]

I also screwed up the original post by hitting the wrong key before I was finished, so I went back and modified the original post to make it complete  .  Whew, what a day. 

[thecfarm]

Glad to see it all worked out for you.  ;D

[barbender]

I hate a tree that gets hung like that at the end of the day, I'm glad you got it on the ground, Danny.

[Left Coast Chris]

Not a good time of the day to get an adrenaline pump....  whew.   Good work getting it down.

[Ianab]

4).  Use the tractor forks or bucket to reach as high as possible and push the tree over.  No.  Dead top would break out and kill me.

Dead top is what would make me nervous alright.

A young local guy was killed last week by a similar tree. Professional faller, all the right gear. They were using a large excavator to help with taking your some pine trees close to the road. They had gripped the tree with a grapple on the ~20t excavator and the guy walked up to complete the cut. The top broke off with the vibration from the excavator and landed on the guy, killing him instantly. They had probably done the same thing 100 times before and had no problems.

Anyway, good (safe) recovery from a tricky situation. The jack lets you ease the tree over without jarring the top loose.

Ian

[SwampDonkey]

In the situation you were backed up against there, the jack was a great idea. I think I've read about others using jacks on occasion. Leaning the wrong way, I would have slung a rope just above where the bottom end would be heavier than from the rope to the top and had a little tension on it. Not a lot because I would be worried about a quick snap of the fibres, while sawing, at the stump dislodging that dead top.

Tricky stuff.  ;D

[JDeere]

I think given the circumstances you did a great job. You walked away to re-think the best approach and dropped it safely. A felled tree is like landing a plane. Any time you can walk away unscathed, consider it went well.

[thenorthman]

Jacking a tree is an old trick for big timber, and back leaners.  Uses less grunt then pounding in wedges.  A company called Silvey makes a couple of different sizes of tree jacks (they are all spendy... 1k plus) but a good 20-30ton bottle jack with a chunk of 3/8 steel plate on top works pretty good, just use em with a wedge incase of jack failure...

the other trick is to stack your wedges, usually a little pocket with a label on one side, fill that with dirt slap another wedge on top pound em one after the other.  The dirt keeps em from popping out acts like a shock absorber and traction device.

I've heard of guys stacking three wedges, where it is possible I've never needed to do it.

As far as dead tops go... You would be much safer to fall it with the lean, or tie a rope on it first, and pull after you've made your cuts.  Dead tops have a habit of falling whenever and wherever they want to.  Pounding wedges into a snag causes huge amounts of vibration, that vibration is what causes the dead stuff to break, looking for the perfect target to land on, soft and wet with nice crunchy finish (your head)

[Corley5]

I've been cutting bug killed ash on my own woodlot with the Fabtek and it's bad enough being in the cab as brittle as the tops are.  I've got three that are too big for the machine to cut that I'll have to hand fall.  I considered leaving them but the kids play in the woods.  Keep an eye on the top all the time while falling. 

[mesquite buckeye]

Just glad you are OK and the tree is safely down.

I always hook up my back leaners with the big come along before starting. Only got hit on the head one time so far. ;D

[Magicman]

Glad that you got-er-down Danny.   

My friend, Wayne Smith, here in Brookhaven has three different patents on a tree pusher invention that solves those felling problems:  http://www.google.com/patents/US7891390

[millwright]

I use a small porta power with a duckbill on it for large leaners, for smaller ones I built a pike pole with an old fashioned ratchet car jack attached to the bottom, you jamb the point of the pole into the tree and the jack end into the ground.

[Magicman]

The trick is to keep if from twisting or turning on either end.  You can dot an i with that setup.

[GAB]

The last fence line leaner that I took down I put a choker chain as high as I dared to climb and attached the winch cable to it.  Notched the tree and then put some tension on it.  Then started to cut the back side for a ways, added more tension and then cut until it went in the tugged or persuaded direction.  Note: I did stay above the wires.
WDH:  1.) Are you going to shelve the wedges so as to remind yourself of your experience.  In any case they should make for some interesting conversations.  2.) Had you used lag bolts instead of screws do you think your jack set up would have worked?  Gerald

[WDH]

Yes, I bet 5" lag screws would have probably held as long as the wood platforms did not split and fail first. 

[Ron Scott]

A good recovery, well done.

[Peter Drouin]

Im glad your ok,and you did a good job to get it down, but with all the land and good green trees you have . don't make it hard on your self, this time in your life it should be fun, leave the dead trees for the bugs, I have walk around trees like that and cut an easy one :D :D :D

[WDH]

Now that is sound advice, for sure  ;D.

[thecfarm]

Now that is sound advice, for sure  ;D.

Yes,it is. But where is the sense of adventure in that?  ;D  We have all been in a mess like that. And don't I hate it and know better everytime it hapens.

[grweldon]

Yes, I bet 5" lag screws would have probably held as long as the wood platforms did not split and fail first.

This is the first thing that went through my mind... 1/2 or larger lag screws, but then again, the pressure required to push the tree most-likely would have split the wood that was secured to the tree.

I think the pocket was a great idea!

[Peter Drouin]

Now that is sound advice, for sure  ;D.

Yes,it is. But where is the sense of adventure in that?  ;D  We have all been in a mess like that. And don't I hate it and know better everytime it hapens.

as long it don't kill you doing it, :D :D :D :D :D  how you doing up north, well I hope  :D ;)

[OneWithWood]

Good job, Danny.  Thanks for posting it.

[Dodgy Loner]

Danny, we all get into situations that we shouldn't be in from time to time. Sometimes the wedges work so well that we tend to overestimate their ability, and that's where we get into trouble (of course, in your case, the barbed wire threw you a curve ball as well). I had just such a situation this past weekend, and your hydralic jack solution could have gotten me out that situation much more quickly my solution. I appreciate you posting this. I will explain my story a bit later - like yours, it had a happy ending, but a little too much suspense before the ending.

[BARPINCHER]

Great solution and glad it worked out.  My 2 thoughts to add are:
1)  An arborists throwline and ball would have allowed you to set a line high up without a ladder so you could have pulled with tractor, come along, winch etc...
2)  Maybe could have used your boards to lag tree and stump together to secure the tree, then start over your cutting higher up like you had hoped to do.

[Dodgy Loner]

So here is my story. Unfortunately, no pictures, but I tried to draw out the scene so you can try to envision it.



My preacher asked me about a month ago to look at a long strip of fencerow near a creek. The bridge across the creek had been out for years, and the county was getting ready to replace it. They would need to clear the trees off of his fencerow to repair the bridge. He had several large trees along the fencerow, and he wanted me to take them, if there were any that I wanted. So I went to see them, and there happened to be a 20" cherry tree right beside the bridge. I wanted

This past weekend, I was on my way through the area, and I decided to bring my chainsaw along to fell the tree. The only spot to fell it was into an adjacent hay field. It had a very slight lean towards the road and the adjacent powerline. But I was sure I could fell it in the right direction with a few wedges.

I made my face cut and it looked perfect. Made a bore cut for my back cut and all looked well. I stopped before the saw exited and drove in a couple of wedges. Then I completed the back cut from the back. It was all textbook. Except, when I tried to drive the wedges in farther, they wouldn't budge. Not a bit. I cut a few oak wedges from a nearby oak sapling. They splintered when I tried to drive them. I cut some hard maples wedges. Same result.

By this time, I was starting to panic. I had planned on taking maybe a half hour to fell the tree, but by this time, I was an hour and a half in. I had to be back home soon to watch my daughter, so my wife could attend an event she had been planning for weeks. I reluctantly left the tree standing and headed home. On the way, I called my preacher to explain to him what was going on. And that, if the tree fell on its own, it would most certainly land on the powerline and leave him without power. I was feeling really bad about this time.

When I got home, I picked up my daughter and about 150' of rope (20,000 lb arborist's rope, not cheap crap from the hardware store) and headed back out to my preacher's house. He lives about 30 minutes away, so it was an hour-long trip.

Much to my relief, when I got back to tree, it was still standing. I was very lucky that there wasn't much wind that day. There was a crotch about 16' up, and all I had to do was toss a rope up through the crotch, hook the rope to my hitch ball, and pull. Easier said than done. The tree was growing in a fence row, and the privet and green-briar obscured my throw. It probably took 10 frantic minutes to get a rope over the crotch, but it felt like forever. Actually, it wasn't me who made the successful toss, it was my preacher. He is a baseball coach at a local high school and has a better arm than me :D. I tied up the ropes in record time, hooked up to my truck, and the tree pulled over so easily, it didn't even feel as if it was pulling anything. Whew!

In looking over my cut, I couldn't find anything that I had done that was blatantly wrong. The hinge and backcut all looked good – no hang-ups anywhere. I guess I just underestimated the amount of lean. Next time, I will make sure to have everything I might possibly need on hand before attempting such a precarious felling operation. You always want the tree to fall where you intend, but when there are obstructions like a powerline in the way, the stakes are higher. I should have known better.

My daughter slept in the carseat the whole time. My wife was unamused when I told her the story later that night

[beenthere]

My wife was unamused when I told her the story later that night

:D :D
If they only knew....

I'm impressed.

  Problem I see, when doing the bore cut from the hinge back out, then the wedges can be placed kerf but not driven in any more than just tight.
  Then after making the final back cut to nip the tree loose, there is that moment that the tree can set back real tight to the wedges.  If they are plastic, not much good comes from pounding on them to raise that tree.
  I think this is a place for a very shallow angled steel wedge that can be driven in.

I have one that seems to work well, and it has only a 3/8" in 6" rise. 
Last year I was caught with the exact problem as your cherry, and I couldn't for the life of me find that thin steel wedge. Tried several things (other than Danny's final hyd. jack method) that didn't work, until finally found the steel wedge. Did the trick on a 65' ash tree that I wanted to fall opposite the lean so it wouldn't take out two nice white oak trees.

[Corley5]

  You guys did good getting them down with no damage or injury  8)
  I avoid problem trees like the plague.  If I've got one that is going to fall over a property line I talk to the neighbor and see how he/she feels about a tree landing on their side if it can be done with out damaging their trees.  If it can and they don't care I pull the whole thing top and all back over the line if it can be done with out damage.  Otherwise if they want all the mess of the top cleaned up ect quite often it's not worth it.  It has to be a pretty valuable specimen if it's going to require too much time and effort.  Others are OK with leaving the top on their side and they'll cut it up for firewood or don't care because they know it'll rot away in short order.  I stay well away from power lines.  Not only are they dangerous but extremely expensive to fix.  A couple times a year I have someone that wants me to cut trees around buildings and I always say no.  A few weeks ago a guy called about 10 oaks he had to cut.  Right away I was suspicious  ;D  Then he proceeded to tell me I'd need a bucket truck to take down 4 of them because they hung over his pole barn and a guest house trailer but that it'd be worth it because of all the firewood I'd get out of them  :  I told him I was a logger not an arborist, I didn't own a bucket truck, and I wasn't insured for that kind of work.  I'm sure a tree service had given him an honest estimate before he called me.  The landowner at the next job asked about us clearing a power line right of way for him along the county road to his place about 600 feet.  I turned it down.  There was very little value, it was too close to the road and I'd have needed a $100.00 permit to work in the road right of way plus a $5,000.00 bond all from the county road commission.  The power company will do it themselves for $1,000.00.  This is the same county that requires a $30.00 "hauling permit" to pull log trucks on and off county roads  :

[WDH]

My daughter slept in the carseat the whole time. My wife was unamused when I told her the story later that night

You should have just told her that you and Ellery just went on a ride to visit the preacher.  That would have been true, and you could have left out the rest of the more interesting details  :D.

BARPINCHER (Surely that is another story  ;D.  I have pinched a few in my time as well  :-\)), look at the pic of the felled tree.  About 45' to 50' to the first dead limb.  With an arborist throw line and ball, and with my torn rotator cuff in my shoulder, I would not only have had a bad tree situation, but I would have got to go visit the doctor as well  . 

[Dodgy Loner]

Beenthere - you are right about the wedges. The only metal wedges I have are splitting wedges, and they have way too steep of a taper to work for felling trees. I need some better wedges if I'm going to put so much faith in them. To be honest, though, it was foolish of me to rely on the wedges in the first place. I was felling the tree into the hay field anyway. There was no good reason for me not to hook a line to my truck to begin with. Especially with the power line on the other side. The more I think about it, the more I just shake my head. Hopefully I will remember this for a while to come.

Danny - the problem with not telling Casie the whole story was that it all happened at my preacher's house. I couldn't exactly ask him not to mention anything...And if I didn't say anything to Casie and he did? Bad news. Bad, bad news. Better to go ahead and come clean :D

[Magicman]

And the truth shall set you free.   

[BARPINCHER]

Ah comon WDH....  Ya just gotta know how to throw it! 8)  2 hands and let the throw ball swing down between your feet... 80 feet no sweat and accurate too.  OR............. you could use a Big Shot.  I worked with a guy for a while that could consistently throw with the 2 hand method almost as far/high and accurate as I could shoot with a Big Shot.  Very little impact on the shoulders when thrown that way.

Much easier to not get in that spot in the first place tho eh? ;D

[WDH]

Of course, you are right.  I was never a Big Shot, but I know where one is  ;D.

[Dodgy Loner]

Barpincher - I've used those throwing balls before. I worked as an arborist for a year. I can tell you, it takes more than a little practice to be able to hit your limb 50 feet up. And if you're trying to throw in the middle of a forest, with lots of other trees and limbs to catch on - well, that's a recipe for frustration. The guys that were good at throwing those things always amazed me, but I never did get good at it.

[OneWithWood]

I recently took down a standing dead white oak that had the top of an adjacent black oak wedged in it.  I suspect it was a lightning strike that took out both trees.  The original plan was to use a throw bag and snake a bull rope up to the black oak top and pull it free before dropping the white oak.  It was rapidly apparent that I was not going to heave the throw bag high enough to do the trick.  So I made myself a potato gun out of some pvc I had laying around and used it like a bazooka to place the throw bag.  Worked like a charm, even if the throw bag lost some stitches.
Of course I could not pull the black oak top free.  It just got wedged in tighter.  I had been pulling on the top with the bull rope threaded through a block and then attached to my tractor.  Any loose branches fell while attempting to dislodge the black oak top.
My next move was to call my neighbor and ask her to come over and spot for me while I dropped the white oak.  She graciously came over and recorded the incident on her cell phone (with 911 on the speed dial).  As always happens when there is an audience things did not go exactly as planned.  My face cut was perfect and level.  My bore cut started out well but I misjudged the angle of attack and bore through the far side of the hinge.  Not much to do but take the back cut to the point of leaving a proper sized holding strap, pull the saw out and start placing wedges.  I put one in the far side of the hinge because I really needed the tree to drop in the small hole of opportunity.  I placed two more wedges on either side of the holding wood and drove them tight.  Checked all around and up, cut the holding wood and the tree just stood there.  Placed two more wedges and pounded all but the one in the hinge all the way in.  Tree did not move at all.  Finally the neighbor stopped filming and the two of us grabbed the bull rope, which was still threaded through the block and tugged.  It did not take much effort and the tree pitched over and fell exactly where it needed to be.  I looked at the stump and it became apparent why the tree did not fall on its own.  Not only did I cut through the hinge on the off side but the hinge on the near side was a good 1-1/2" thick.  I have learned that a hinge that is even a bit over 1" in most of our hardwoods will create problems and cause unnecessary wedging.
Leigh said she was going to post the video on utube because she thought it was funny to hear me utter an expletive or two when I cut into the hinge.  Too bad she did not capture the tree falling.  As far as I know the video is not out there...

[Dodgy Loner]

As far as I know the video is not out there...

I wanna see it... ;D

[Magicman]

One afternoon while felling a group of beetle killed SYP, a wind came up while I was making a final cut.  It set the tree back on my bar so there I was.  Stuck.  I finally removed the saw head from the bar and left the woods.  I was back a few days later and the tree was on the ground exactly where I was attempting to throw it.  The bar and chain were laying neatly on the stump.  Since no one was there, I wonder if it made a noise  ???

[WDH]

Some things are better not filmed.  .

[Magicman]

Some things we never forget either, especially when they cause your lower extremities to crawl up into your throat.    (your toes of course)  ;D

[WDH]

The wood nymphs did it.

[BARPINCHER]

Dodgy-- until this guy I expained about showed me his style-- I would be 100% in agreement with you.  It is so darn easy and accurate I had my godkids who are 9 and 12 banging em up 40-50 feet in a hickory tree in my yard and hitting the right crotch 3 out of 5 time at worst and the same for my dad who is pushing 70.

Now getting them untangled or unstuck welll---- thats another thing altogether. ;D

[customsawyer]

Danny I am glad you got it down.

[hackberry jake]

Show me someone who says they've never had trouble getting a tree down and I will show you one of two things. a.) A liar, or b.) Someone who hasn't dropped many trees.

[mesquite buckeye]

Every time I hang a tree, I think about how I could have done it differently so the tree wouldn't hang. As time goes by, I hang less trees.

[SAnVA]

I've been cleaning some old farmland up for the last 15 yrs. ( old pasture fields with 40-50 yr. old Virginia Pine ) always by myself and I always have 2 chainsaws, rope , wedges & maul , and I keep a long slender pole about 15ft. in length handy! Usually I can put a tree where I want it with one of the above but every now & then I still run into one that just wants to be contrary! Be careful out there!

[Forrest277]

I had exactly the same problem with this type and age of tree just a few months back...

same story, put in the face cut _ started backcutting _ (the bar was hard to pull out) and the thing closed up before I could get the wedges in ...

ive seen the jack solution used a few times too, you done good to get out of a sticky situation. that is quite a common method i think for big difficult trees the only difference is that they plan cut the jack hole first.... anyway I didnt have a jack but did manage to get it done ... there was powerlines and road in just the place the lean was taking her...

what I did have was a good wide metal chisel about 1inch wide hexstem with a flat head _ so I hammered that sucker into the center of the backcut, and after 3 or 4 minutes belting with a good heavy lump hammer, I got the tree to tip forward slightly uphill and sideways, away from all the obstacles (downhill).

this is not a pic of the stump described above, but instead one Im most happy with as my example of one that went exactly right ... hope you enjoy

NOTE FROM ADMIN. PLEASE REPLACE YOUR IMAGE WITH A JPG FORMAT IMAGE. PNG IMAGES ARE 100 times bigger than JPG and the forum server cannot reduce them on the fly.

GF
==

[petefrom bearswamp]

Right on hackberry.
Caution is the by word.
My situation when this occurs is always in my woods with quite a lot of room, a 85 hp tractor, Farmi winch and 150 feet of cable.
Keeps me a good ways out of harms way.
I almost always have help but when alone just a fair amount of tension before felling works.
Looking out for widow makers and fool killers of course.

[limbrat]

I like a zebco 808 with a 7ft rod 17lb. test and a 1oz. weight. If its viney its a real pain, but them widow makers scare me. I like to get a line in them and give the tree a few hard jerks before cutting it. Them limbs and tops dont blow the horn on the way down to let you know there coming.
Thanks for posting about the problems you had a lot of people would not have.

[Forrest277]

german engineering >>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI8ATaC9VpU&feature=endscreen&NR=1

special for backleaners

whaddyathink

[mesquite buckeye]

Oh my God!!!!    8) 8)  I want one. How much????? ;D

[enigmaT120]

Oh my God!!!!    8) 8)  I want one. How much????? ;D

...me, too.  What keeps it from just slipping out?  Those outer parts must look like cheese graters or something.

[Forrest277]

Oh my God!!!!    8) 8)  I want one. How much????? ;D

...me, too.  What keeps it from just slipping out?  Those outer parts must look like cheese graters or something.

no idea on price etc or exactly how its constructed, but I can see that it might be handy ... hence the post... the rest as they say is over to you guys ... it looks like it could be a homemade device but certainly specialist tooling