Hoping to soon be buying an old Timberjack skidder

[mf40diesel]

After wanting one my whole life, I believe I am going to be pulling the trigger on buying an old Timberjack.  Have 4 in mind that I am looking at.  2 are mid-60's 225's.  Both seem to be in comparable shape.  Another is an early 70's 230d (rockwell housings, eaton winch) and the last is an unknown year 208d.

I like the 225's the best, however one needs rear tires pretty badly.  The 230 looks pretty rough, however except for a really worn out main tranny shift pattern and one leaky axle seal seems actually pretty good. I have only seen pics of the 225's, and can't go now as I am back at work on the ship for the next three weeks.

After logging with my tractor for years, I have decided that the skidder is worth it for me; plus I concede that it is safer with a skidder.  I may not use it as much, but I hardly use the snowmobile that I spent alot of money on too.

[danbuendgen]

Over all I like any Timberjack the best for a small skidder. Like I said in your other post, I would highly recommend a 240 over a smaller machine. I am a full time logger, so that may have something to do with my bias. However, a 240 has MUCH more power, and is also a ton more stable. I live in the mountains, so stability is key. I have done jobs with my 240 that others said was "not possible". The Eaton hubs and walking beams on a 240 are much more solid. And the Grearmatic winch is much more powerful then the ones on the smaller machines. The price for a 240 or smaller skidder are roughly the same, and operating cost is very similar. My 240 with the 4-53 only burns 5-8 gallons per day. And the 4-53 seems to start up better in the cold and run cooler in summer, compared to the 3-53. The 230, 225, and 208 have there place for sure. Nothing wrong with that size of machine... For what you are doing, a smaller machine would probably do just fine. But after running all of them, I would never go back to anything smaller then a 240. GOOD LUCK. And post some pictures of what you end up buying.

[Bert]

This 225 Jack has done well and pulls about 4000 bd ft a week for last 10 years or so for me. Amazing machines on longevity and simplicity.

Agree a 4-53 would be nice. Just a bit more power/another gear going up hills would be nice. Pay no mind to the twigs its pulling here. It can do much better :D

[mf40diesel]

Is your 225 new enough that is has eaton rearends?  All three of the machines I am looking at have the rockwells which I guess are not as robust. Being that I am a light duty logger at best, they should be just fine.  Many are still in service after 50 years or more, so I have to assume that they are still pretty darn tough.

One question though one of them looks slightly different.  I will attempt to explain the difference but will likely not do well.

Both of the 225 appear to have the Rockwell PR75's (actually so does the 230D) They all have the same outer cover (so you cannot see the three pins)  one of them however has a smooth outer housing, the other two have a ridged outer housing.  Ridged meaning that you can "see" where the 12 outer bolts essentially travel through the hub. Maybe that makes no sense.

Like many things I am likely over thinking this. Any thoughts however?

[Bert]

I honestly cant say what I have. I dont become knowledgeable until i need to work on it and havent yet. I do know the winch is an eaton as I had it redone. All the tags on this thing are worn off. It does have TIMBERJACK stamped on the hubs. Its a go-getter. I have been through a few detroits. Once you know what your dealing with its a great motor. Never tore into the one in the jack in pushing 20k hrs

[mf40diesel]

Seems to me that if it has Timberjack stamped into rearends, that they are Rockwell's.  As best I can tell anyway.

I have to assume that, as I said before, lots of them are still in service, which leads me to believe that they are still pretty darn tough.  Jeeze, all of the skidders I am looking at are around 50 years old.  One of them is still used daily.  If that's not a testament to a robust machine I can't imagine what is.

[coxy]

I honestly cant say what I have. I dont become knowledgeable until i need to work on it and havent yet. I do know the winch is an eaton as I had it redone. All the tags on this thing are worn off. It does have TIMBERJACK stamped on the hubs. Its a go-getter. I have been through a few detroits. Once you know what your dealing with its a great motor. Never tore into the one in the jack in pushing 20k hrs

they look like pr75 Rockwell they are a good rear we have them in a case skidder and only put in planetarys in 25years never broke an axle not trying to be a wise guy but I know my case will pull more than a 225tj so you should have no trouble with the Rockwell rears  and  the 240  also had 353s in them

[danbuendgen]

If the hub says Timberjack its the Rockwell. If it say Eaton, its Eaton.

All of the older 240s I see and have owed have the 4-53 motor. Any thing smaller has the 3-53.

Both are good motors. Make sure you are running straight 40 wt in summer and 30 wt in winter. These motors were first made in the 1930's. They did not have 15w40 back then. Multi weight oils are hard on a Detroit. I know a lot of guys run 15w40, but Detroit says never to do so. Also, these Detroits need lots of clean air. Make sure to keep you air filter clean or it will pull crap past the filter and dust the motor.

Good luck skidder shopping.

[coxy]

not shur of the year its in the 80s but it has a factory 353 turbo and nice and quiet  8) the 353 turbo has the same hp as the 453 non turbo   we have been running 15/40 in our Detroits for years and never had any issues had a 318 for 12 years till the cab/frame rotted  had a case Beloit with a 353 for 18 years had a pettibone 501 with a 353 for 10 years and sold it still going and have a 671 for the last 8 years running most every day  we know what the book says  a book also tells you when you buy a new truck not to tow with it for the first 500 miles do we listen not most of us  :D :D :D ;D

[David-L]

Good luck on skidder shopping, Jacks are nice and easy to use. Detroits have proven themselves for years and are still out there making someone a paycheck every day. With a good muffler system thats not to restrictive you can quiet that non-turbo down a bit. Lots of great info from members on Jacks on this site.



 

[mf40diesel]

Im really excited to be honest.  It's mostly a hobby for me, I do all the firewood for myself and my parents off of our 65 acres, plus cutting a few loads of logs every now and again.  Over the last several years we have started cutting other neighbors wood to maintain views.  Generally we get the logs to sell and they get the firewood.

Because of the fact that I don't really need a skidder,  I have felt that I couldn't justify the cost.  A few of my friends, which happen to be professional loggers, have been persuading me, their argument has been very much that:  if it something I love pursue it, makes the job safer, and seems that as long as you keep up the maintenance and throw some paint on it, one can likely get their money back.  The other big one is the money,  I spent a lot of money on a snowmobile that best case I can only use a few months a year, with luck from mother nature.  A skidder I could use year round, except mud season. 

I would like to know a muffler that I could add to tone down that detroit.  I love the sound, but holy smokes that 3-53 is so loud when in the cab!

[mf40diesel]

A further question:  I have looked at a 230D,  paint looks rough as heck, not a ton of rust but a sloppy paint job converting it from orange to green.  But actually the machine seems pretty good over all.  One rear axle seal or inner planetary leaks, and the main transmission lever is super sloppy.  Other than that, it seems okay.  Can the transmission be okay, but just the shift forks worn out, or is it generally the whole tranny about to fail?   This machine is fully chained up, pretty worn chains, but for my usage will last years.  Forward of the front rear end there is no skid plate.  The oil pan is pretty high up in there, but is their supposed to be a skid plate directly under the engine?  I would have assumed so, but never actually climbed under one.

The 225's and 230's seem incredibly similar.  Same rearends, same engine.  225's hercules winch, 230d eaton.  The only difference I can really see is the 225's have a 4 speed tranny, the 230 4 speed with a high a low.

230D,  asking 10500  unsure of it's real history,  owner deceased, nephew is selling. 
225,     asking 12000 (one owner since the early 90's, on his farm not professional logger) front ring chains, tires 30%.  Machine seems quite nice.
225,     asking 10000 logging daily. Claims engine is fresh, center pins/bushings just done.  Tires front and rear smoked. One set of worn chains.

I feel like the machine for 12 might be the best.  A little more money, but the tires will likely last me many years, and being that it was owned by one farmer, I have to believe that it is not as worn out as the others.  Maybe I am wrong.  what do you guys think?

[Bert]

The 225 for 10k also seems reasonable if he has some backup for the motor work. You can also check with tire shops in your area for some used rubber. I ripped a sidewall in one of mine and wound up with a 75% Firestone Forestry Tire for $500 installed on my rim with a new tube. I'd be slightly concerned with relying on ring chains for traction if your logging your own property here and there. A decent set of tires makes a whole lot of traction and doesn't tear up near as bad. A few trips with rings and you plowed the ground.

[danbuendgen]

we have been running 15/40 in our Detroits for years and never had any issues

Oh, I know. Lots of guys do it. I just like the idea of running what Detroit recommends using. Also, my oil pressure it much better with straight grade oils. Detroit also claims to change the oil at 100 hours. Detroits are very hard on oil.

[coxy]

we have been running 15/40 in our Detroits for years and never had any issues

Detroit also claims to change the oil at 100 hours. Detroits are very hard on oil.

umm  :D  twice a year for me spring and fall  but I will put in 5 gal of diesel fuel and flush the old black oil out let it run for a vary short time and drain it my dad always did it with no trouble so I picked up the habit may not be the right thing to do but old habits are hard to brake  only had one troit run away with is self  not fun but they will scream for a little while  :D

[teakwood]

Im really excited to be honest.  It's mostly a hobby for me, I do all the firewood for myself and my parents off of our 65 acres, plus cutting a few loads of logs every now and again.  Over the last several years we have started cutting other neighbors wood to maintain views.  Generally we get the logs to sell and they get the firewood.

Because of the fact that I don't really need a skidder,  I have felt that I couldn't justify the cost.  A few of my friends, which happen to be professional loggers, have been persuading me, their argument has been very much that:  if it something I love pursue it, makes the job safer, and seems that as long as you keep up the maintenance and throw some paint on it, one can likely get their money back.  The other big one is the money,  I spent a lot of money on a snowmobile that best case I can only use a few months a year, with luck from mother nature.  A skidder I could use year round, except mud season. 

I would like to know a muffler that I could add to tone down that detroit.  I love the sound, but holy smokes that 3-53 is so loud when in the cab!

Here is a good post from tantoy and it shows how to make a muffler for a detroit

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,82185.0.html

[millcreek40]

The 225 should have high & low also.  Hercules And eaton winch are the same

[danbuendgen]

Look at the pictures in my gallery. I have some pictures of the muffler we put on my 240. I just put a second one on the roof (not in pictures), dew to lots of neighbors on my current job. Works good. Personally I like it LOUD. I like the chopper to hear where the skidder is at. Nothing worse then a skidder sneaking up on you when chopping!

[mf40diesel]

I will have to check them out for sure.  While I love the sound of the Detroit,  I have never sat behind one for hours straight...  after the 30 min I put on the 230D that I tried out, of course with no hearing protection, I was surprised just how loud it was.  I will certainly look for some sort of muffler to add. 

For that matter,  not too many houses where I am in Western Maine, but whenever someone else is running one, a 353 can be heard throughout the whole valley.

[coxy]

its hard to steal trees with a Detroit 

[Dave Shepard]

we have been running 15/40 in our Detroits for years and never had any issues

Oh, I know. Lots of guys do it. I just like the idea of running what Detroit recommends using. Also, my oil pressure it much better with straight grade oils. Detroit also claims to change the oil at 100 hours. Detroits are very hard on oil.

A lot has changed in oil technology in the many decades since Detroit recommended single weight oils.

[Neilo]

You said that the 225s are mid 60s. If you are right, the differences are more between models to the D series than 225 to 230.

The 225 up to E series has Rockwell's. The Eaton axles were only option on the late 225d.

The 225 actually have Rockwell pr76 in them. The 230 has pr75. That is difference between machines. Now the pr75 and pr76 have same centre and plantetaries, but different housing.

If a d series has winch with Eaton on it, they have changed cover or winch.

Neilo

[danbuendgen]

While I love the sound of the Detroit,  I have never sat behind one for hours straight...  after the 30 min I put on the 230D that I tried out, of course with no hearing protection, I was surprised just how loud it was.

A Detroit is not too bad with ear plugs. But its loud for anyone with out them. My skidder can be heard for miles and miles.... Any close neighbors hate me. Especially when I work weekends.... The 2 mufflers tone it down a bit more then the stock "coffee can" muffler.

[danbuendgen]

we have been running 15/40 in our Detroits for years and never had any issues

Oh, I know. Lots of guys do it. I just like the idea of running what Detroit recommends using. Also, my oil pressure it much better with straight grade oils. Detroit also claims to change the oil at 100 hours. Detroits are very hard on oil.

A lot has changed in oil technology in the many decades since Detroit recommended single weight oils.

Just to be clear:
Are you saying to go longer on oil changes? Dew to better oil quality?
Or that running 15w40 is just fine? Both?
I agree that oil quality has come a long way, at 100 hours in a DD, the oil is ok but dirty, the DD makes a lot of soot. Much more the a Cummins, John Deere ect.
I have sent out a few oil samples at 100 hours, and they all came back saying that the oil was getting dirty and I could have gone 10 or so more hours, but with a Detroit to keep doing oil changes around 100 hours. They tend to make the oil dirty faster then newer engine designs.
My Timberjack mechanic, swears by changing the oil in a DD at 100 hours. He only works on TJ's and he loves the DD motors. He says the guys that do frequent oil changes, get double the life out of the motor. And I feel like oil is cheaper then a rebuild. Just my .02

[Corley5]

My 3-53 uses enough oil that only filter changes are required  ;) :D ;D