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Woodmizer LT35 vs Timber King 1600

Started by Poplarpete, October 09, 2018, 06:37:21 PM

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Poplarpete

I've narrowed it down to these 2. I've seen the WM up close and personal, TK only by video. WM is a little less $. 1 specific concern is the single rail cantilever with the WM. Does it bounce? Any other thoughts about the mills greatly appreciated. BTW, I this will be my 1st sawmill.

Busysawyer

My super 70 bounces but not in the cut. It cuts very accurately.  The cantilever head allows you to cut much bigger than the same size twin rail mill will. 
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

WV Sawmiller

    If you have that as a worry i suggest you watch the LT35 in action some more to set your mind at ease. TK makes a very good machine and my only beef with them is they spend too much time downplaying the cantilever design. I love my LT35 and have nothing but good things to say about it. I wish it had a wider cut and more horsepower but for the price I paid I am well satisfied. I like the extra options as to off bearing from more places (Either end, either side). Also it has held its value well and I always have the option of upgrading. My machine already far exceeds my material handling capabilities which need to be examined in conjunction with your mills capabilities IMHO. Good luck and I am sure you will be happy whichever way you go.

   BTW - I have never had a bounce problem IRT your specific question.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WDH

The Woodmizer cantilever design is decades proven.  Decades. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

PAmizerman

If the cantilever head was a problem WM 
Wouldn't be selling thousands of mills.
I think other companies are just sore that WM pantented it and they can't use it.
Woodmizer lt40 super remote 42hp Kubota diesel. Accuset II
Hydraulics everywhere
Woodmizer edger 26hp cat diesel
Traverse 6035 telehandler
Case 95xt skidloader
http://byrnemillwork.com/
WM bms250 sharpener
WM bmt250 setter
and a lot of back breaking work!!

Bruno of NH

I seen a 1987 lt 40 with the original owner cutting some nice pine at my benefit sawing project.
And 3 other lt 40's going hard and not one bad piece of lumber.
I'm a believer
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Outlaw

If you let everyone know where you live, there might be some kind owners let you take a look at their mill.  
TK 1600, old logging equipment,  sthil chainsaws

Chaser357

I have a TK1600.  The company has been great to deal with. Wood Mizer is too because I have had an orange mill too.   

What I like about my mill that the WM doesn't have (standard).   

Chain log turner
Fine adjust outriggers
Very simple hydraulics and very little electronics
36" log capacity with about 32" between the guides
A little more horsepower
I can buy parts pretty much anywhere

What I don't like about my mill that WM has.

Hydraulic toe boards
Hydraulic back stops
Hydraulic clamp (up and down)

If the TK had these three things I would say no question get the TK but it doesn't so you will have to decide what is most important to you.  I will say both are great companies and you will be happy with either one.  I wouldn't worry about the head design so much.   If it was a problem you would have heard about it by now. 

Southside

I have a 35 and run it hard, it is a critical component of my primary income.  There is zero issue with the single mast and no bounce at all when cutting.  In addition to lumber and beams I produce flooring, shiplap, v-match, and other finished profiles, inconsistent lumber would be a serious problem for me.  I think TK is a great company as I have some of their sister company equipment that is used in down stream processing, great customer service and great products.

Yesterday I had to profile a shipment of shiplap, and the customer wanted a skip plane finish - it was a royal pain to make it come out right because my rough sawn material was so consistent that trying to get the perfect skip look was all but impossible.  

Ironically, I am right now in the process of buying a second mill and this one will be orange due to the benefits of the cantilever design and WM's powerful, yet simple to operate advanced set works.  Woodmizer does have an unfair advantage with the cantilever design, but they came up with it and made it work, Ad Victorem Spolias.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Doug Wis

   I chose the 1600 over wm  basicly  because of all hyd controls , nothing electrical. Mine sits outside, and  that's tough on elect stuff. Had to add a remote throttle to make it more usable. Don't know if that is a factory option now. If not it should be. Previous to that a neighbor sawed thousands of feet for me with an lt30 I believe. very accurate sawing job.  I agree with  the   post that said the other companies spend too much time running down WM design. Either will do a good job for you
A man who says he can do everything at 65 that he did at 25 sure wasn't doing much at 25.

ladylake

 
 There has been a lot of misinformation put out about 4 post mills also, I don't know where that came from.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

ladylake

 
 Looks to me the TK 1600 can handle a way bigger log plus its not a walk along.  These new TK mills have 16" above the blade clearance which takes away the cantilevered big log advantage.  Just turn that hump or knot up with that nice chain turner.  As mentioned more hydraulics and less electric is not going to break down near as much.  My B20 has over 14000 hours and I've spent less than $200 on the hyd head drive. Steve 
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Poplarpete

Thanks for all the response. I found similar posts with replies but they were all old and wanted current info. Sounds as if I couldn't go wrong either way... I live in the piedmont section of NC if there's a Timberking owner near who'd be willing to let me come by and see the mill in action... Thanks again. Great website!

John S

Check out "Out of the Woods" on YouTube.  LT35 without a debarker!
2018 LT40HDG38 Wide

alan gage

I bought a used and neglected Timberking B16 last year. I enjoyed resurrecting it and it was great to buy parts off the shelf from the local hardware store or surplus center. If I ever bought a new mill that would be a strong selling point for me to go with Timberking.

On the other hand there have been times with a big log were I would have liked the cantilevered head to keep me from having to trim with a chainsaw so the 4 post carriage would fit.

I really like the chain turner of the Timberking but others get by fine with Woodmizer's claw.

I like not having to walk along with the carriage, especially when the wind is blowing the sawdust the wrong direction.

I wish I had hydraulic log stops. When nearly everything else is hydraulic it really seems like a slow down to have to manually adjust them, especially when squaring up a log since you need to raise them before you turn and then lower them to cut.

My carriage is manual up/down as well but I assume the newer 1600 is powered.

I wish I had woodmizer's two plane clamp. My Timberking is an early one and they probably improved the clamp over the years but that two plane clamp sure looks handy.

Good news is that you probably can't go too far wrong either way you decide.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

SawyerTed

Pete, you'd be welcome to come see my LT35 in operation sometime. It appears we aren't too far apart.

I shopped several brands before purchasing.  The bounce issue was one thing that was pushed by some manufacturers, but has turned out to be of no consequence.

Nearly every sales rep compared their mills to Wood-mizer.  After hearing the comparisons over and over, I went to Albemarle to see the Wood-mizers.  I put a deposit on my mill during that visit.  I don't know anything about support from Timber King but I do know support from Wood-mizer is excellent.  Parts often arrive the next day and ordering is quick and easy by phone or on the website.

Periodically I saw at a site where the customer has a Timber King.  I've looked it over very closely.  I have two observations.  One TK has a different design philosophy from Wood-mizer.  Two is the one feature the TK has I wish the Wood-mizer has is the chain turner.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Haleiwa

Quote from: Southside logger on October 09, 2018, 10:18:17 PM
I have a 35 and run it hard, it is a critical component of my primary income.  There is zero issue with the single mast and no bounce at all when cutting.  In addition to lumber and beams I produce flooring, shiplap, v-match, and other finished profiles, inconsistent lumber would be a serious problem for me.  I think TK is a great company as I have some of their sister company equipment that is used in down stream processing, great customer service and great products.

Yesterday I had to profile a shipment of shiplap, and the customer wanted a skip plane finish - it was a royal pain to make it come out right because my rough sawn material was so consistent that trying to get the perfect skip look was all but impossible.  

Ironically, I am right now in the process of buying a second mill and this one will be orange due to the benefits of the cantilever design and WM's powerful, yet simple to operate advanced set works.  Woodmizer does have an unfair advantage with the cantilever design, but they came up with it and made it work, Ad Victorem Spolias.
I've heard of running a band with one tooth deliberately set too wide to produce a rougher surface.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

WV Sawmiller

   I was like Sawyerted. I had never watched a mill in operation but had written the major mill makers a few years before then lost interest. They were not pushy but WM was persistent sending me post card invites anytime there was a show near by. My situation changed and I got interested in a mill again so I diverted over to Albermarle and talked to Tyler on a trip to Charlotte to see my daughter. He showed me the features and put my mind at ease as to ease of operation and maintenance. I put down my deposit that day too and scheduled delivery for early January. I went ahead and got my business license, insurance, found the FF and read everything in this category between then and January. Tyler delivered my mill and did a demo for me and my son. It was 0 degrees when he left and had warmed up to 5 degrees and 6" of snow by the time he got here with my mill. The lube tank was a solid block of ice. 

   I sawed in practice a while till I was comfortable to saw for the public. My practice lumber went into building a big pole barn to store my lumber. My experience with WM for operator questions and a couple of warranty parts was first rate. When I bought belts and other parts from WM I found their prices were very competitive and delivery was always very prompt. I have since used there semi annual service loop and found the reps to be wonderful people and very professional in their servicing. It is worth the fee just to watch and learn.

   One of the other sponsors here (I will not names) then started sending me e-mails and flyers pushing me to buy their mill until I finally told them to cease and desist and finally got them turned off.

    The only time I saw a TK in operation was on a job where the sawyer set up then delayed so long the customer. my feed supplier, asked me to come too as he needed his lumber by a set date when he had help to build. I milled a couple days then on the last day the TK operator was back. The customers helper fed both of us logs. The TK lumber looked good. There was one big 17 hemlock log there and the TK sawyer told the driver to send that one to me as my hydraulics could lift it better than his. My hydraulics had no problem handling it. I don't know if his was working normally or not.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

reswire

I currently own a Woodmizer LT40, used to own a TK 1600.  To me, It's all about the bed design and the rock solid hydraulics on the Woodmizer bed.  The Woodmizer backstops are incredible.  TK 1600 backstops not so much.  I had to weld manual backstops on my 1600, when the factory stops continued to bend and flop.  I did like the chain turner, but when turning cants or moving logs around, the hydraulic toe boards and the solid bi-directional clamp make all the difference. Chain turners will leave cuts and scars on the finished board, but a bi-directional clamp will easily move cants without scarring.  Both companies are great to work with, TK sent me replacement items for free, long after the sale, and I was the second owner!  Not so much with Woodmizer.  You will pay for replacement parts and shipping there.  It is worth seeing in person, if you want to make an informed choice.  Having a sawmill dealer in your home state, is worth a lot as well.  Both great mills, I'd see both in person and then make a choice!
Norwood LM 30, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 1 Chessie and a 2 Weiner dogs...

ladylake

 


 If you want some real backstops get a TK2000.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

YellowHammer

I've owned a couple Woodmizers, their service is what can be expected to operate our business.  I call them, they know what I need if break something, its shipped next day, I'm back up and running.  You will break stuff.  You will have questions, and having a person on the other end of the phone who knows things is important.  I have talked to TK about edgers and I give them credit as they are honest and always answered the phone, also.  

Woodmizer has a Resharp program, thats huge, buy bands, use them, box them up and mail them.  They come back in a week or so, sharpened and ready to go.  I don't know it TK has a sharpening program.  For a new sawyer, having a convenient and high quality sharpening program would be critical.  One less thing to worry about.  About $10 a band including shipping costs.  I know there are local aftermarket sharpening companies, but I have seen more than one mill that was having sawing issues tracked back down to incorrectly sharpened bands by "local" sharpening companies.  If TK has a sharpening program, then this is not an issue.

As far as the mills themselves:

WM has hydraulic backstops.  This is important as I use my backstops for many things, including reverse rolling logs and cants, shifting logs and cants forward and backward, etc.  These movements take force, more so than could be done with manual backstop system as on the TK1600.  Backstops can be used for much more than backstops.

The first thing I noticed was the guy on the TK video having to walk around and manually set a height pin in the log clamp.  That put me off immediately, thats just one more trip around the mill, twice for every log, for the life of the mill.  The WM has a hydraulic two plane where the height of the clamp is set from the control station.

As said, chains turners and claw turners will scar up high dollar cants.  The WM two plane will not damage cants.  Once I have a cant, I only use the two plane because its fast and won't cause divots.

The WM has hydraulic toe boards, a necessity for grade sawing.  I use my hydraulic toe boards almost every log, whereas on my old manual mill I almost never used them.  Why?  Because manual toe boards are a pain and inconvenient.  So with hydraulic toe boards, I can cut parallel to the bark, easier, which results in higher quality wood, easier.  I didn't see that the TK had hydraulic toe boards.

TK has engine driven hydraulics.  That is nice and reliable.  The WM has an electric pump.  Both work, just different systems.  I would prefer if WM had an engine driven pump.

Forget about the cantilever head being an issue.  Its not.  We sell dried, grade hardwood, about 20 different species that are skip planed to 15/16".  We mill to 1-1/8", dry and shrink to about 1-1/16" and then skip plane to 15/16" only taking a 1/16", give or take, off each face.  Most boards will clean up 100% on one face 90% on the other.  Only a very accurate mill can do that.  In contrast, when we occasionally buy wood from mega mills, using circular saws, we have much worse results with the skip planing, with many more blade marks still on the board, and less clean faces.  So a cantilever head will cut more accurately than the wood coming off industrial grade mega mills.  I have no doubt the TK cuts very accurately, also.  Dull, or poorly set and sharpened bands as well as not reading log stress will cause the majority of inaccuracies, day in and day out, and that is why a quality resharpening program is so important.  

Model for Model, for me, the LT35 wins over the 1600 due to more hydraulic features, i.e. hydraulic toeboards, hydraulic backstops, hydraulic two plane clamp, if I was going to choose.




YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

ladylake


 Some of the TK advantages
 
 Way more capacity, not even close
 Stationary command post, you are certainly walking way more with a WM than you ever will with the TK

Twin rail, easy to keep adjusted and not necessary to spray down with atf to keep working (Seems like WM is switching over to twin rail on their new mills)
 Engine driven hyd, real reliable compared to troublesome WM electric driven pumps
 Hyd feed, WAY less trouble than the WM electric system
 If you do any amount of sawing get a sharpener and setter, WAY less cost than sending them in.  I think TK does sharpening, but to me I can sharpen blades just about as fast as boxing them up and sending them in.
 I understand TK swing up stops on the 1600 are not the strongest but I'd have them breakproof in a couple of days.
 Almost all of the parts are off the shelf
 Most likely forgot a couple.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Hilltop366

Question, does one need to be a Woodmizer owner to use their re-sharp service?

WV Sawmiller

   Call and ask. You will know immediately.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Tom the Sawyer

Timberking does have a resharpening service.  Used it many years before buying my sharpener and setter.  For someone starting out, use a sharpening service, you'll have a steep enough learning curve without adding blade complexities into the mix.  As mentioned earlier, the hydraulic items mentioned as missing on the 1600 are available on the next model up and may be available on the 1600 as options.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

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