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grade question

Started by woodmills1, November 06, 2005, 09:26:18 AM

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woodmills1

Found a local lumber concentration yard that is willing to buy from me.  They want the 4/4 at inch and an eigth, anyone else experience this?
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Jeff

That is the standard for hardwood grade. 1/8 over. At least here in Michigan. You can't sell it otherwise. (wholesale)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

woodmills1

so I guess I will have to cut at inch + 1/8 +1/16 that will be some fun math  :P
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Tom

Just cut at 1 1/4 and see if they complain about it being too thick.  :D

Bro. Noble

I've always done it like Tom suggested and anywhere I've sold liked it just fine.  I use the inch scale on our woodmizer and can set it on quarter inch marks to saw any product we sell.  They like ties a little oversized so 7 1/8 X  9 1/8  works.  Pallet stock is set at 3/4 and results in the desired 5/8" lumber.  At least with the pallet stock,  they scale it at 3/4 so even though it's a low price,  they are buying the sawdust :D
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Gunny

I always assumed that every sawyer on the planet knew to saw at 4/4 until I contracted several thousand BF of sawing out one time and began getting calls weeks/months later from some very pithed craftsmen who were finding it almost impossible to finish out their work at 3/4" since their rough stock had dried to just about 7/8".  Man, that is not a place you ever want to be.  I ended up replacing much of it and rebating lots of $$ since the whole point of my dealing with these fine people is to provide them with a rough product which they can use.  It just never once crossed my mind to actually measure the thickness of cut since the guy had been in business for years and was running a mill that cost him more than my house had run me.  But you can bet I'm ALWAYS aware of the thickness of rough stock these days.

Congratulations on the opportunity.  Sounds as if you're about to be one very busy man.

Jeff

Quote from: Tom on November 06, 2005, 10:26:56 AM
Just cut at 1 1/4 and see if they complain about it being too thick.  :D

Our markets certainly will. It will be tossed. It will get an "X" by the grader and sent back as to thick and miscut. 

 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

dewwood

NHLA grading rules stipulate 4/4 lumber must dress out at 13/16" for that reason you need over and inch to consistently achieve dressed lumber of 13/16.  With the woodmizer I set the setworks for 1-3/16" including kerf and that leaves me with just over 1-1/16" green lumber.  Because the band blade leaves a much smoother surface than a circle blade this has given me dried lumber that will dress out at 13/16" consistently.  I have sold to wholesale markets and they have not complained about this thickness.
Selling hardwood lumber, doing some sawing and drying, growing the next generation of trees and enjoying the kids and grandkids.

Ron Wenrich

Some guys will take that 1/16" over, but most want plump sawn.  That's 1/8" on 4/4 - 6/4 and 1/4" plump for 8/4 and up.  I have never had too much of a problem with too thick.  They can plane that off, as long as you're not trying to throw 5/4 into the mix.  Too thin and I'll get a complaint.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

gmmills

   All our grade, up to 6/4 in thickness , is cut an 1/8" over.  I used to get away with a 1/16" over until our wholesale markets started to tighten up a while back.  Now it's an 1/8" over or little heavier.  With a computer setworks you can adjust kerf allowance to allow for 1/8" over shy or 1/8"over heavy.  A little plump board should be no problem as long as a 4/4 board, in nominal thickness, measures less than 1 1/4". If it measures an 1 1/4" it is then it is classified as a 5/4 board and will be graded as an out.   

    My first WM mill had no setworks. Just had a rule scale.  When I cut grade I used 1/8" as kerf. This kept the math a little easier. This, in turn, produced a plump board. My 4/4 lumber measured 1 1/8" to 1 3/16" in thickness. Never had a problem selling the lumber being a 1/16" plump.  I would suggest you check with your lumber buyer to see what constitutes a too thick board.     
Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
WM LT70D62 Remote with Accuset
Sawing since 1995

woodmills1

Well I cut the 5 logs, one was real nice 2 fair and 2 poor.  Ran about 5% over scale, that 1 1/8 really eats up the wood.  Looking at the grade produced I figured an average of around 45 cents or less, meaning I would get around $350 after delivery if there were no miscut rejects.  So I bet the phone bushes calling every one who had asked about or bought ash in the past and got a customer to buy the whole pile for $440 and he is picking it up! :D :D guess I will have to wait for my first try at wholesale grade sawing.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

hawby

Guys,

I know this was an old topic, but it reared its head this week with me. I have the LT-70 programmed to drop 1 - 3/16" . The setworks on it takes the kerf into consideration. My LT40 sawyer is using the hard scale at 4/4 and it too produces a 1-3/16" board. My customer was commented that the boards were plump and some may be rejected due to flexing and coming close to 1-1/4" at some ends.

So I will be adjusting the LT-70 to 1-1/8", especially for the Cherry and Maple boards as I gain 1 board in 9. I am concerned though about the LT-40 as the simple setworks seem a little tougher for my sawyer than the scale. Any suggestions?
Hawby

Missin' loggin', but luvin' the steady check...

Minnesota_boy

The scale on my Woodmizer has 2 sides, one for hardwoods that saws about 1 3/16 and the other for softwoods that saws just over an inch.  The quarter scale is held in place by a thumbscrew halfway up it.  Once you loosen the thumbscrew, you may have to bump the scale to get it to slide up and out.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

hawby

Minn-boy,

Yes, I am aware of that, but grade boards must be 1-1/8" (+/- 1/16") (** For our market**)  A light went off though when reading through all the other posts (a second time....must be the oldtimers disease!) Alll I need to do is create a new scale that reduces the span by 1/16" and that will give me 1-1/8" boards rather than the 1-3/16" boards that the scale currently gives us.  :) It doesn't seem like much, until one looks at sawing a whack-'o Cherry logs...then that 1/16" adds up to REAL $$$$$ over time.

Once again the FF has brought sunshine to where the fog was abundant!
Hawby

Missin' loggin', but luvin' the steady check...

Coon

I guess this answers most of my questions as to thickness tolerances in different markets and different woods.  I was just reading a book called Circular Sawmills and their efficient operation by Stanford J. Lunstrum.  Iwas going to ask what thicknesses do you bandsawyers use when sawing out green lumber and what are the most common accepted tolerances for the available markets?

Around here we saw the 4/4 softwood lumber to the full 1" and 8/4 is usually 2"-2 1/16".  Hardwoods are a whole different ball game when sawing for grade.  We normally saw 4/4 hardwoods at 1 3/16" and 8/4 ro 2 3/16".  There have been specific market requirements for specific markets that often call for 4/4 @ 1 1/8" and 8/4 @ 2 1/8" (+- 1/16 tolerances) and therefore we set the WM to cut to the 1/8 mark which then only an average of 1-2% of the boards are too thick or too thin.   These rejected boards are then placed in their own pile and sold on different markets or kept for my own personal use.  This is why I generally saw 5-10% more lumber than needed for these specific orders.  Some markets will accept 1% rejction in the orders.  Anything over that can and generally will be penalized on the value of overall combined order.  Example:  That means that if I have orders for 3 lifts of lumber (lift=1000/bdft) with maximum of 1% overall rejection@say $500/lift and I have 1%/lift rejection rate on the inspected lumber/lift  I have a overall of 3% rejection rate of which will normally result in penalty of a minimum 5% reduction in payout price.  Anything at overall 5% will not be accepted and often results in loss of contract for the market.   Kinda makes for hard bidding of jobs and often requires select grade logs for even no.1 lumber. 
presently am filling an order of dried 4/4 lumber with these exact instances and it is not fun at the least but the payout price is gonna be worth my effort as I have more than enough to fill twice the order size cut stickered and stacked to dry.  It has beend drying for over 2 years.  The payout price of this lumber is valued at $1750/1000 bdft.  I have gone through enough to make 1/2 the order and the other half will be done sometime tomorrow for pickup on Monday pm.   The grading was done on thursday and was expensive to say the least.
Brad :D :o :o
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

customsawyer

I cut mostly hardwood grade at a 1 1/8" using the 4/4 scale on the woodmizer. I do use the hardwood side of the scale and I cut a consistant 1 1/8  with very little over. I don't have the accuset. The only time I run into a thick or thin board is due to stress in the log and then it goes over to a stack for pallet stock. On the up side of that is I don't have to dry the lumber or stack it all I do is make the logs into lumber and sawdust and a very small amount of waste since the folks I cut for will take anything that will make a 3 1/2" x 48" board for pallets you don't have to take a very thick slabe off before you are making lumber.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

dail_h

   I have a 9/8ths scale from Norwood for my mill
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
      Volume Discount At ER
Singing The Song Of Circle Again

GHRoberts

As a buyer I like to get wood cut plump,  but I would never demand it without paying a premium.

For  NHLA rules 4/4 only needs to clean up at 13/16" and only on the area that determines grade. If you can saw thinner than what is demanded charge a premium or sell elsewhere.


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