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Ripping chain or full chisel?

Started by onegunsmith, October 20, 2013, 11:43:01 PM

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onegunsmith

I'm planning on milling some dead spruce for a cabin and thought ripping chain was the fast way to go. After doing some reading i've seen several people say a full chisel is faster than ripping chain. I'm not worried about how rough the logs may be as it's just a trapper cabin. What say you?

Thanks

Jemclimber

The top plate filed to 0 to 15 degrees with semi chisel (round corner) chain aka ripping chain,  just leaves a smoother finish and possibly stays sharp a little longer. It's not faster. Use what you have.
lt15

Scoter

The short answer, as with the bar oil, is to use what you have and fine tune your method to suit.

The long answer, mine anyways: I think the difference is in the angle of attack. If you are milling straight across the end grain then an angle 0-10° to the top plate is best for a smooth finish and a fast cut. As you angle the bar in the cut however the chain begins to cut much different as evidenced by the "noodles" (clutch cover clogging linguini like chaff instead of saw dust). Few people, post, or threads address the changes in cutting as we transition from true rip cuts to true cross cuts, despite the fact that many people try to mill at an angle with their CSM.

Using the bundle of straws analogy to represent wood fiber, it is easy to see how you would change how you would cut the bundle at parallel and right angles, as well as say a 45° angle. If you think in terms of using hand tools to cut straws in such a manner you would arrive at very different methods for each of those three cuts and cutting speeds and "finish" would likewise vary greatly.

So the long answer is to either tune your equipment to suit what you are trying to do, or tune what you're doing to suit your equipment. In your case North of the Yukon I would say the latter may well of necessity apply often. Use what you have and adjust your cutting angle to maximize results somewhere between crosscutting and ripping (assuming you have sufficient bar length to do it).

WmFritz

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Scoter. Interesting post... I've seen the noodles come off my saw and thought it was the particular wood I was cutting.  ???
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

mikeb1079

i would use milling chain.  i've tried both regular (30*) and milling (10*) chain extensively and i've found the speed difference to be negligible.  however the regular chain leaves a really scalloped gouged looking finish if you don't feed just right.  the milling chain leaves a really nice finish.  i've had good luck with the woodland pro chain from baileys.
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

onegunsmith

Thanks for the responses fellas. I'm running a husky 3120 with a 24" bar. I've only got one chain for the bar so far as the saw came with a 36" bar. I bought a new ripping chain and it seemed to work well but it's a 3120 with 24 inch bar in 8" of spruce, it should cut pretty good. When i go to build the cabin i planned to purchase 5 chains to take to the building site. Just trying to decide which chain would be faster. I'll have plenty of winter grade bar oil with me on that trip.

Brucer

I used a regular, full comp semi-chisel and reground it at 0°. I also tilted the grinder to 45° from the vertical. When I was hand-filing the chain I would drop the file much lower than normal in the gullet to maintain the 45° angle. The chain cut significantly faster than a traditional ripping chain.

I also inserted kerf wedges to keep the slab/flitch from pinching down on the back of the bar. This left a much smoother face (better than a bandmill) and better yet, reduced the load on the motor. A wedge on each side of the cut, every 4' or so, did the trick.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Grandedog

Howdy,
You can achieve even better edge with your grinder if you relieve the wheel. After you shape the wheel the way you normally would, then dress off the bottom of the wheel. I usually do this by laying the dressing brick flat on the grinders chain guide, and introducing the wheel. The amount of relief needed will vary depending on the tooth size. The whole objective here is to get the whole top plate of the tooth on to the side of the grinding wheel. This make the top plate edge straight like a chisel. If you don't get the whole top plate on the side of the tooth, you'll end up with a concave or curved edge.
Regards
Gregg   
Gregg Grande
Left Coast Supplies LLC
1615B South Main Street  Willits, CA 95490
888-995-7307  Ph 707-602-0141                   Fax 707-602-0134  Cell 707-354-3212
E-Mail  gregg@leftcoastsupplies.com   www.leftcoastsupplies.com

stihlsawer

Quote from: mikeb1079 on October 21, 2013, 09:09:26 PM
i would use milling chain.  i've tried both regular (30*) and milling (10*) chain extensively and i've found the speed difference to be negligible.  however the regular chain leaves a really scalloped gouged looking finish if you don't feed just right.  the milling chain leaves a really nice finish.  i've had good luck with the woodland pro chain from baileys.

+1 this is what I use on my GB with a Stihl 076 Super.

Trever
Trever Jones
Stihl 076 Super, 034, MS 260 PRO, MS 192T
Dolmar 116si
GB 44" lumber mill, Mini mill, Beam machine

Al_Smith

Aha tis Gregg the greatest parts locator of all time .Where have you been for a couple of years ?

Grandedog

Howdy,
I've got a new gig as part owner of a new start up called Left Coast Supplies. We're the new North American distributors for Lucas Mill. We also be offering some woodcutting, and arborist supplies. We've had to go from 0-60 quick. As soon as I get more time I'll be on here more often.
Regards
Gregg
Gregg Grande
Left Coast Supplies LLC
1615B South Main Street  Willits, CA 95490
888-995-7307  Ph 707-602-0141                   Fax 707-602-0134  Cell 707-354-3212
E-Mail  gregg@leftcoastsupplies.com   www.leftcoastsupplies.com

shelbycharger400

My slabber im running 55 and 15 as my last grind, with 35 to 45 thou for the raker. I took a super skip loop for a 36 in bar.   I took tape to mark the keep,  and removed everything for teeth I have bout 7 pairs. this is my 3rd chain , I've ran several diff grinds and skip sets . Even with 17 hp,  less teeth the faster it cuts.  The more you drop the rakers and less teeth you have the more it tears up the sprocket and tie straps. My chain speed is bout 6k.per min  Factory full chisel seems to be rakers at 25 thous   takes forever  but unmodified  full set at 60 and 20_25 deg still cuts but slowww and smooth .   I've learned lots and messaged log boy  and fixed a few things.  I've free hand ripped some big stuff with my 32 in bar on a 630 jonsered,  drop the rakers a bit,  lighten the throttle to 3/4  and it will cut better than running wide open.

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