Will trees dry out fast with the tops still on?

semologger · February 06, 2008, 11:03:19 AM

I need to find a way to get the dry material the fastest way i can. I heard this just wondering if its true. The Pine needles/ leaf will pull all the moistier out of the tree faster. When the leafs or pine needle are brown its dry.

Any thoughts?

DanG · February 06, 2008, 12:31:55 PM

I doubt that it will make much difference. Pine straw dries up pretty quickly after the tree is cut. The quickest way to get dry pine is to cut it into boards as soon as possible. In my experience, by the time the center of a log dries, the outside will be rotten. I cut some old logs yesterday, and had to waste about 3 inches before I got to good wood, which wasn't even close to being dry.

Dave Shepard · February 06, 2008, 12:44:35 PM

I know someone who used to do that with hardwoods when cutting firewood, and it seemed to work. Maybe one of our tree people can go over the mechanics of this with us.

Dave

DanG · February 06, 2008, 12:55:22 PM

I remember reading about that, Dave. I think he was cutting the trees down in the spring, just as they started to bud out, and the rapidly growing new leaves would suck some of the water out. It sounds feasible, but it wouldn't work for SYP.

roger 4400 · February 06, 2008, 12:59:14 PM

I had to do firewood **fast** because my uncle had ruined our forest roads (my firewood was thrown down the automn before) It was in may/ june, I felled the hard wood trees but let the leaves on for 3 weeks to a month. When they were all dry and brown, I put it in 16 inches and pile them. In automn when I burned them I did not see any difference with 9 months dry wood that I usually burn. I,m burning wood for more than 30 years. I think that the leaves want to **live** and pull as more humidity (sap)they can....I,ts my experience..with hard wood, for pine ????? might be the same.... good luck. Roger

RSteiner · February 06, 2008, 01:55:33 PM

I've heard what seems to be an old tale of cutting down a hardwood tree and to let it lay there with the leaves and that will make it dry faster. Well... my experience has been that a tree cut in the dead of winter has less sap in it than it does any other time of the year. Trees cut in the spring when they are just budding out have a high amount of sap in them. The leaves on a tree in the fall don't use as much water to keep them cool as the temperatures have started to cool.

I think the biggest water usage by a tree in the summer is to keep the leaves from burning up, I think there is a term for this but can't think of it right now. A large hardwood tree during a hot day gives off many gallons of water through the leaves to keep from burning up. I would think that this is when it may be benificial to leave a tree lay with all its leaves on it until they wilt.

I don't think the amount of water given off doing that is greater than cutting, splitting, and piling the wood correctly. I find that wood cut in the winter dries better, and has a longer time to dry before the next heating season. Just my 2 cents and I maybe all wet too.

Randy

beenthere · February 06, 2008, 02:23:10 PM

Randy
You get my vote... 8)

sharp edge · February 06, 2008, 04:22:02 PM

I take my hardwoods and NYP ( starting a new class of wood ) cut a circle on outside then stab them and cut the inside out all but 2-6" on outer edge. They still live a long time 2-3 yrs. or longer. Might lose 1/2 the water is why I do it, Don't like lifting water. Think cuting them up would be the fasted way to get them dry. If you drop them they take a lot of room in the woods. Poplar wood weights10-20% more in winter than summer here. The mills and foresters don't like to talk about that here, the mills pay by the #.
SE

SwampDonkey · February 06, 2008, 04:27:54 PM

Quote from: beenthere on February 06, 2008, 02:23:10 PM
Randy
You get my vote... 8)

Count me in. ;D

sharp edge · February 06, 2008, 04:45:41 PM

Randy, IF we keep giving out all the trees secrets here, Jeff might make us a branch manger for the F/F. 8) 8) You have 2 votes already.

semologger · February 06, 2008, 04:50:09 PM

Sounds good to me to i was just wondering. I am starting a shaving operation was just needing dry material. I may just start buying pine slabs they dry out pretty quick dont they?

Tom · February 06, 2008, 04:57:46 PM

In my opinion, the fastest way to get dry shavings is to shave the logs, wet or dry, and then dry the shavings by blowing air through them as they are tumbled or turned. Shavings are thin enough to give up their water pretty quickly if you get air to them.

There's a big difference in drying logs, lumber, timbers, firewood, sawdust, chips and shavings. The one thing they all have in common is that it's the air that takes away the water. Get the water to the outside of the "piece" and the air can remove it.

I like what DanG said about Syp.

sharp edge · February 06, 2008, 05:17:26 PM

A place near here around 1985 was making turkey bedding with red pine that was in a forest fire. I took them 2 loads of balsam that was killed by spruce bud worms. They didn't want any more the first load burnt the place down after they shaved it.
SE

SwampDonkey · February 06, 2008, 05:26:06 PM

Yeah wet sawdust can spontaneously combust. There was a mill this fall that shut down and in a week the green sawdust ignited. They got it out.

Ron Wenrich · February 06, 2008, 05:54:51 PM

Spontaneous combustion only comes from dust that is in a pretty high pile. Along with the moisture, you need some type of compaction. The wieght of the pile will provide enough. Bark will do the same thing.

RSteiner · February 07, 2008, 06:22:25 AM

Well... Golly, Gee I was almost elected. :D

I guess I jumped to a wrong assumption that the question was about firewood. The fact that pine was mentioned should have indicated firewood was not the issue. However, I agree with what I said.

Drying wood shavings is another matter and Tom gets my vote on this one. ;D

Randy

Weekend_Sawyer · February 07, 2008, 07:46:29 AM

This is new to me. Do you make shavings because there isn't enough sawdust?
My little bit of looking into wood shavings just now seems to indicate that it is used for animal bedding.

Jon

semologger · February 07, 2008, 10:53:12 AM

Shavings soke up the moisture alot better. the dryer the shavings the better the shavings. Poeple around here dont use sawdust on horses they like shavings.

rebocardo · February 07, 2008, 12:58:44 PM

>need to find a way to get the dry material the fastest way i can.

Cut it down and into boards or < two foot sections (firewood) as soon as you can. I cut urban trees, many dead, and even after a few years, the wood is still very wet if the bugs or rot haven't hollowed the tree.

I cut some hickory into 4-6 foot lengths (was going to resaw) and kept it off the ground covered. It hardly dried after almost 1 year.

If the tree is on the ground, unless it is something such as cedar, it still will not dry and will rot instead.

Just my experience.

beenthere · February 07, 2008, 01:15:23 PM

Quote from: semologger on February 07, 2008, 10:53:12 AM
Shavings soke up the moisture alot better. the dryer the shavings the better the shavings. Poeple around here dont use sawdust on horses they like shavings.

This has been a very interesting thread...I'm sure wondering how one can invest much time, money, and/or effort into producing a dry shaving, and getting enough return on all that investment.
Shavings seem to be a by-product of an operation like dry-planing lumber. Having a place to get rid of them normally a problem, and they work good for bedding because they are dry.
Just can't fathom setting up an operation solely where green wood is turned into a dry shaving that will pay for logging, transportation, equipment, and drying expenses (oh yes, and some profit for the pocket book).

Has this business venture been worked out, from the sales end back to the wood procurement end?

SwampDonkey · February 07, 2008, 01:28:30 PM

Probably not too in depth. ;)

Furby · February 07, 2008, 01:31:29 PM

Unless the slabs are debarked, I think you'll have way too much bark contamination to keep horse customers happy.

ely · February 07, 2008, 05:14:17 PM

as far as moisture content in the log i am not sure of the effect is has on it,but in my experience when cutting pine and cedar, if i leave the tree as it falls for at least a week sometimes as many as 4 weeks. it does make a great deal of difference on hauling weight. as in sometimes the tractor or bobcat will not load a certain log until i cut some and let the leaves suck some of the moisture out. i do not have this luxury of time everytime but when i do have the time i will leave them lay for awhile. preferably i cut my logs that are green in the winter that way the sap is already down.
if i am selling my logs over a scale i will cut them in the growing season and sell them asap after felling.

as far as getting the logs moisture content down before chipping i would say time is the only feasible way but thats just my opinion.

pineywoods · February 07, 2008, 06:59:45 PM

My experience says yes, it will make a difference.I cut a lot of beetle killed pine. Beetles kill a tree by eating the inner bark, once they eat all the way around the trunk, the tree is effectively cut. By the time the needles start to turn brown, the wood in the trunk will be quite dry.

semologger · February 07, 2008, 07:01:27 PM

I will be able to tell when i get back to work if it makes a difference. I have around 125 ton laying on the ground right now. Some has been laying there for a month already. With the looks of things weather wise it might be another month till i get to them. When i do get back to work i will leave those trees on the ground and cut around them. I can cut plenty of wood in a day to make up for whats on the ground, i will be leaving to dry out. I can cut 100 ton a day easy. I was averageing 3 trees a minute the other day when i was cutting.