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logging tractor

Started by 1938farmall, February 20, 2009, 03:30:48 PM

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1938farmall

Thinking about upgrading my "red" tractor to "green" and see there are a very large number of John Deere 4720 listings.  It is 58hp w/4wd and looks like it only comes with the hydro drive (3 ranges, separate pedals for forward & reverse).  Since this model was only started in '05 it must have been very popular.  Any feedback on this model would be appreciated.  Thanks, Al
aka oldnorskie

adirondack harvester

If the tractor is going to be used for logging you might want to think about getting a skidder instead.  A lot more stable and designed to take the abuse of the woods.

thecfarm

Look to see where the hyd filter is.On some it's under the floor board. ::)  A real good place to hit it with stumps and rocks.You will need to buy the protective cage for it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

dsgsr

1938farmall , If you're thinking of buying the JD 4000-20 series models look at the 4320. I think it has the most bang for the buck. JD used the same engine for the 4120, 4320, 4520 and 4720 but just tweaked the injectors for more HP. In my opinion the more you tweak an engine the hotter it runs for the same grunt, which results in less engine life. All four tractors are the same size frame but different HP.

David
Northlander band mill
Kubota M59 TLB
Takeuchi TB175 Excavator
'08 Ford 550 dump
'87 International Dump
2015 Miller 325 Trailblazer Welder/Gen

tractorhal


Woodhog

I would not want hydro drive in the woods...

I like to set the hand throttle to a certain speed and usually you are in the lowest two gears on the low range...

Once you have the gear selected for the hauling conditions and the hand throttle set you can
adjust the rev slightly with the foot throttle once in a while.

I like to just grind and roll along slowly and not to have to keep pushing with your foot on the hydrodrive foot control when the machine is bouncing around on rough ground.

Its much different from running a back hoe or a tractor in  field work when you a skidding with a tractor in rough woods conditions.

beenthere

And not to just be different, but I think hydro in the woods is the best game in town, compared to gears. Hands are free to run the loader and 3pt., move branches out of the way if needed, and scratch an itch, or just chase bugs away from the face and wipe the sweat off ;D ;D.

And there is cruise control with Deere hydro, so having a steady speed with no foot usage is an easy choice if tired on the hydro pedal. Sometimes I use the cruise in the woods on longer runs, but not often.  Also this Deere has load match, so that is handy too.
Just my opinion.

Not heard of any hydro users that go back to gears.  :)

The Deere 4000 series has Deere diesels too, not Yanmar.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Polly

 i got a jd 5325 4 wheel drive with a front end loader this is about 60 hp if you are getting a jd just to pull and load logs i think a skidder or something else would do better the jd the hyd connections for the loader hang to low  if you have not a weight box on the rear and try to pick up over 2000 lb the read of the tractor comes off the ground if you try to raise the bucket or forks on unlevel ground it makes the tractor top heavy the old farmall with a pto driven wench would be just as good as well as being a lot cheaper :) ::)

thecfarm

I don't think a hydro is the way to go either.I put my tractor in gear and set the throttle and go.My hands are free to run the loader and 3 pt too.Once I have the winch up and get going I don't touch them again until I get to the  wood yard.But most times I just keep one hand  on the wheel all the way.I just go at a steady speed.I'm in the woods with mine just about every day off doing something.I do have another tractor that is hydro and like it for what I do with it,it never goes in the woods to be worked hard.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

zopi

There is not such thing as a red to green upgrade. :D
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

fishpharmer

Zopi , thats highly debatable. ;D ;D

Concerning choice of tractor size.  It depends on size of logs you are trying to move and other tools involved.  I don't have alot of experience moving logs with tractors, but I have some.

This is my humble opinion; the more weight and horsepower the better for straight dragging. I used my MF 263, of about 62 horsepower to move most of the big logs after the hurricane.  The Massey weighs close to 7000 pounds with ballasted tires.  I would put a chain around the big end of a log and pick up with the 3 pt hitch.  Then pull.  Most logs I moved were at least 24 inches diameter.  That was probably the smallest tractor I would want to use skidding logs.

The tractor front end often came off the ground if I went to fast or on rough ground. 

I didn't have my 4020 at the time but it is much larger and I am sure would have done a better job.

Now I think if you are using a log arch,       weight isn't as important if on flat ground.  A small tractor on steep slopes will get pushed around by the weight of logs. Ask me how I know ;D
Tractor brakes are designed to stop the weight of the tractor and a reasonable load.  I personally wouldn't want to move alot of logs that weigh more than my tractor. 

I looked at the 4720 specs on the deere site and it shows a weight of 3700 lbs.  Seems a little light to me for logging, although 4wd will help if you can keep the front wheels down. 

For probably not much difference in money I think I would go with a larger 5000 series tractor.

Hope that helps some.
I know there are folks with alot more experience than I. 
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Sawyerfortyish

Man going from red to one of them green things is like shootin ol yeller. I know a lot of guys use tractors for logging but skidders are for logging tractors are for farming. I started on a blue tractor with a farmi winch that worked good. After a small dead tree along the skid road fell across the tractor seat knocking me out of it I went and bought a timberjack. I didn't get seriously hurt from that tree but it could have been real bad had it hit me square. I lived and learned. You can get a real deal on a skidder now. When I bought mine I only paid 9 grand and put it to work. That was in 1989 and it's still going strong. Get the right tool for the job.

Reddog

Quote from: 1938farmall on February 20, 2009, 03:30:48 PM3 ranges, separate pedals for forward & reverse

What you describe here sounds a lot like the Clark skidders we had. They where a 3 speed power shift with a torque converter.
I would think the JD Hydro would work much the same way. It would let you control your speed well going through rough terrain. And start the pull on a heavy load easy, so as not to shock the drive-train.
The only disadvantage I know of for the hydro's is they do not like plowing and disking all that well. They can build a lot of heat in the transmission on steady all day pulling. Plus in order to make them work right in the hard long pulls, you need to keep the engine at near max rpm's. But for shuttle/loader work and varying speed work they are great.

I skid with a M6800 Kubota and a 601Farmi 3pt winch. It has a hyd shuttle clutch, so that takes the load off the trans on the start of a hard pull. When I bought it I was looking for a power-shift of a hydro. None of the large names built one at that time in a 68hp. What you are looking at sounds very intriguing.
As you already know from using your current tractor, sticks can take out a lot of vital parts on a tractor compared to a skidder.

The other brand to look at and see what maybe available is Fendt. They have a lot of CVT transmissions. I just did not have a dealer in my area. Hopefully I have answered some of your questions.  :)

pineywoods

There is another option, it's ORANGE. Been using a Kubota M4700 for several years, it does everything I need. Most of the Kubotas mentioned on here are the L series, a little on the small side for skidding. M's can be had with 100 hp and more. On tractor skidding in general.... For use as a skidder, 4 wd is pretty much a waste, if you have a front loader, then it's worth while. Most folks will tell you to put a belly pan under the bottom for protection from stumps and limbs. I say don't, the downside of belly pans is they get full of leaves and debris which gets soaked with diesel fuel and oil, then catches fire and burns the whole machine to the ground. Just watch what you run over. OK, so I might bust off something, I can fix that, kind of hard to rebuild a burned machine. I don't use chains to hook the log, a good set of skidding tongs is a good investment. Just make sure the tongs are attached to the 3-pt up high enough that you can lift the end of the log a few inches off the ground. Dragging a log through the woods with the front edge digging in the dirt and roots is an accident waiting to happen. I have a home-built hydraulic winch mounted on the 3-pt hitch, only use it when I can't get the tractor close enough to the log to use the tongs.
Yeah, a small skidder would be nice, but it won't load the logs on a trailer, or haul off a pile of slabs, or put a log on the mill. For us po-boy part time operators a well equipped big-enough tractor is a very good compromise
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Polly

my wife likes the pretty grean paint thats my color and i am stuck with it  :D :D ::)

woodmills1

there is also another orage option

KIOTI


here is a dk45 with metavic loader from payeur.com

there forester Kiotis 's are well set up and protedted for woods work

I have a dk40 and metavic if you have any questions
http://payeur.com/produits/usages/usage22.JPG
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

dsgsr

woodmills1,  Do you run your tractor in 4wd with the chains on front?

Thank you,
David
Northlander band mill
Kubota M59 TLB
Takeuchi TB175 Excavator
'08 Ford 550 dump
'87 International Dump
2015 Miller 325 Trailblazer Welder/Gen

Dave Shepard

I prefer hydro for most things, and have no problems whatsoever with it in the woods. Hydro can allow you to do some things that just can't be done with conventional setups. Working on very steep slopes with positive control for one, like setting a tree in a planting hole. I have a Farmi winch, and my L48 does a fine job with it. You do loose some power, but it isn't really an issue in my opinion. As for color, well, that's personal preference. ;) I pulled these two 40'+ red oak logs out with ease.

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

tyb525

My old IH 656, although not ideal for wood work, works well when it's not too slick or hilly. My dad built a heavy duty crane-type attatchment for the back. It works very well.

It has hyrdo drive. It's the kind that you control with your hand, just put it at the speed you want and leave it. It's very handy. It also has a clutch, for whatever reason. The hydraulics can lift quite a bit too.

Biggest log I've pulled with it was a 20" diameter 40' walnut, didn't have much trouble, except trying to get it around a sharp bend. :D
Not sure why I didn't cut it into shorter lengths. I guess I'll attribute that to limited experience at the time. ::)
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Dave Shepard

We've got three of those 656s, all diesel, no hydros. They seem to run forever.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

tyb525

Mine's gas, but it still runs great somehow. :)
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

woodmills1

James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

John Woodworth

I personaly wouldn't think of logging with a tractor but to each his own, here on the west coast the terrain would tear them up, skidders are probably the most abused piece of machinery in the woods yet they always get the job done and with reasonable operator safety. Too many thing on a tractor un shielded to be damaged and the frames and running gear were designed for a whole different job, if your a weekend logger you will probably be fine but JD builds both skidders for logging and tractors for logging.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

OneWithWood

What is the terrain like?

I use a JD4520 with a logrite arch to pull logs out once I get the logs to the access road.  My terrain is severe and I use an old JD450C crawler/loader with a monster timber winch on the back to get the logs to the road.

Widen the stance of the tractor by extending your tires and put chains on the back if the terrain is rugged.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Dom

I guess it would all depend on the type of logging you plan on doing.
If you use the tractor for your own firewood lets say a max of 10 cords a year, the 4720 should be able to do the task if you are careful and attentive to your surroundings. If you plan to log heavier then buy a proper machine.

We had a 4720 at home for a while, and settled on a L5740 (Kubota's version). Neither are tractors I would use much in the forest (only for my own firewood). They have the power, but lack weight. we use ours for brush cutting, and other light work, and for this its perfect. At 60 HP, we haven't ran out of power yet. For heavier work, a real farm tractor would be better (bigger frame, heavier, able to handle some tough times).

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