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I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.

Started by MikeySP, January 30, 2019, 05:14:30 PM

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MikeySP

Old Greenhorn, well said! Things can get really BIG when focusing through a magnifying glass. It was good to be pulled away from the glass to see the world. Thank you and I did go back and reread Doc's wise words. 

Thank you all for your great kindness. I have someone else calling me now. My 17y/o daughter is wanting a game night since my son is off tomorrow. TTYL.

-Mike

haha, Tom, your post showed when I went to post this. Thank you and I agree. The debarker build has consumed a lot of time, but I have over 30 logs stacked and ready to mill. If the rains are not torrential, i will be going after them as soon as I get the debarker done. Tomorrow hopefully. 

Goodnight men!

WV Sawmiller

   I have told people sawing is like driving an old fashioned stick shift up a steep hill and making a left turn. For a new driver just downshifting and remembering about using the brake and clutch up a hill when slowing down is hard enough without having to remember to use the turn signal and watch ahead and your rear view mirror. For an experienced driver these steps become automatic and routine. They only become automatic and routine after lots of practice. Every log is different and the more different, the more you learn so by all means saw as much and often as you can and watching and sawing with others is even better. At first, like when you get your new mill and the WM rep shows you how to operate it, you don't even know what questions to ask. 

   Little things matter. I promise when getting ready to move the mill you will raise the head and start forward then realize you did not raise the head enough to clear the loading arms. Raise the head, move forward and lower the head. Ooops - forgot to raise the travel pin. Run over and do that. Lower it down and ready to go - right? Did you remember to hook the safety chain so the head doesn't bounce off the pin? Great. Now do a quick walk around before towing. How come that hydraulic arm is hanging so low? It's gonna hit the first rock or root you drive over. Let's go raise it. Wait - it won't move? Why not? Oh yeah, the head has to to be against the copper power bar at the front of the mill. Ok -raise the head and run it back up front. It won' t lift - oh yeah, that dang safety chain is holding it back. Go disconnect it. Can't - its under tension. Go back, lower the head, release the chain, raise the head, back up front, collapse that cylinder, return and lower the head and connect that safety chain. Okay, now we can go. How come those fenders are leaning against that stack of wood?

   Get the idea? It all comes together but after lots of baby steps. Don't try to run before you learn to crawl. Keep on reading and keep on posting. If we laugh it is because you remind us when we were in your shoes.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

YellowHammer

Sawing up a few of your own logs will get your confidence and knowledge going pretty well as the guys have said.  

If you want to visit, I'm a little over two hours south of you, just north of Huntsville, Al.  I'm sawing pretty much every day and maybe I can help flatten out some of the learning curve for you.



YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

MikeySP

Well, Emily won the game. 

WV Sawmiller thank you for that dose of perspective. I have told a similar analogy to my children, good to hear myself.  

Yellow Hammer, I came very close to contacting youthe beginning of the week, but thought I need to saw some logs up first to make the best of a visit, so I opted to round up those 30+ logs. I really appreciate the opportunity and will be in touch soon. 

Goodnight all!

-Mike


WV Sawmiller

   Sawing a few logs then going to visit an experienced sawyer is a great idea because then you will appreciate the skill and time/work saving steps he follows and will also give you several questions for him to answer. Patience grasshopper - this too will pass with time. :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

YellowHammer

I've always believed that every high grade hardwood log can yield a either majority of excellent lumber, or a majority of poor lumber, depending on both the sawyer and the kiln operator.  

There are lots of way to properly slice and dice a log, this is just one of the go-to patterns I use, and I would show you if you visit.

There is a lot of very useful information contributed by many different sawyers in the thread.

Is it a Drying or Sawing Dilemma in Drying and Processing
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

alan gage

I got my mill late in the cutting season and didn't get it fixed up and ready to use until the spring so I spent the winter on this forum reading (and re-reading) all I could and finding wonderful old topics (like the one YH just linked to above). It was overwhelming but as soon as I actually started sawing logs in the spring everything started to make sense. Some things were easier than they seemed when I'd read about them and some were harder but it wasn't until I actually started making sawdust that anything I'd read really sunk in. You'll be fine and will learn quickly. 

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

MikeySP

WV Sawmiller and Alan, I am convinced that is the best thing I can do at this point, saw some logs, then do as WV said: visit with Mr. YellowHammer. Sadly, the arbor had a machining error. I was able to fix the inside burr with a reamer and a couple turns of the hand. However, the blade would not fit on the outside, but Tim at Woodmizer interpreted my situation very well and overnighted me one, unfortunately it won't be here until Monday Afternoon because of the weekend. 

With a 40MPH wind advisory, I disassembled our two shade/rain tents (temporary outside shops) and stoed some of my tools in the cargo trailer. I will do whatever outside tasks I can today as long as rain/wind levels permit.

I know it would be nice to saw even without the debarker, but I will not do that. I am too close to not wait a few days. 

YellowHammer, thank you for the link. I read it and will re-read it a couple times, so I can comprehend it better. I will study that cut pattern/order especially and the remarks about it so I can grasp the wisdom of it. 

-Mike 

Woodpecker52

Just start sawin, just saying, its hard to break anything on a woodmizer except a blade!  after a day you will feel 1000% better. :P ::) ??? 8)
Woodmizer LT-15, Ross Pony #1 planner, Ford 2600 tractor, Stihl chainsaws, Kubota rtv900 Kubota L3830F tractor

Woodpecker52

As far as blades, do as Magicman do, get some WM turbo 7 degrees and get a bunch.
Woodmizer LT-15, Ross Pony #1 planner, Ford 2600 tractor, Stihl chainsaws, Kubota rtv900 Kubota L3830F tractor

WV Sawmiller

   I'm with woodpecker. If you get the chance start sawing even without the debarker. The debarker just extends the life of your blade. It does not make better lumber. Besides - you will probably saw into a side support or clamp after a few passes anyway and have to replace that blade anyway. :D :D Those side supports like mine did not come with all those teeth marks on the rollers. You have to customize them yourself. ;)
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

MikeySP

Ok, Gents, while I had a couple delays, the debarker is up and running and I was able to run my sawmill for several hours yesterday. It was slow, but I was very satisfied to get he most sawing I have done in a day and since starting on that debarker build. 



 

Since those logs have spent 6-12 months lying on the ground (burn pile) I have not only been sawing logs, but big white grub worms. I have seen a dozen of these vermin in only the few logs I sawed. 

This wood is going into my barn and my son is building himself a small office this coming week. 

Can I spray bora care and call it a day? Do we frame his storage shed (office) and once dried-in use the good quality bug spray we have (termador) and then insulate, cover the walls and be good? I hate for him (office), me (barn) to use this lumber for the above mentioned projects and have HUGE regrets, but I do not want to waste money either. 

Thank you.

-Mike

MikeySP

I noticed Bora care is pretty spendy and end inexpensive Timbor is pre infestation. 

Do these bugs die when the wood dries out from being in a dehumidified environment? I tend to doubt this as I recall reading somewhere about furniture with little sawdust piles from PPB (Powderpost beetles) and the like.

MikeySP

Btulloh stated the following: 

"Those grubs sound like pine borers.  They won't bother you later on, but PPB can part of your future.  They probably aren't there now.  FWIW, I had some pine logs that sat too long and got the borers in them.  I sawed siding for my sawmill shed out those logs and put the siding up.  After two years, no sign of any other issues.  I do have some nice peep holes to look through though."

I just a read a bit about PPB (Powderpost beetles) and I don't see those types of holes so far. 

I would certainly feel very bad if my son spends $1500 on all the other materials for this little office and I give him wood that turns his project into a nightmare.

-Mike

YellowHammer

Here's my take on bugs, in general.  The only ones I worry about are the ones I can't see.  The big grubs, the carpenter ants, and even the termites are easy to identify and deal with in a physical sense.  Termaticides, Deltamethrin, etc are commercially available and commercially effective for these. You'd see and hear them if they were in the wood.  They are big and noticeable. Cut the lumber, shake them out, trim the boards, etc to get rid of them.  I used to have a flock of pet chickens that would stand be me when I milled nasty wood and peck the bugs from the boards and the ground.  

I'm simplifying for the sake of brevity, but powder post beetles, in general are very specific in the wood that they like, hardwood beetles only like hardwood, softwood beetle only dine in softwood.  So they are self limiting in a sense.  You may have an infested hardwood table, but it won't spread to the pine studs.  It may very well spread to the hardwood floor, if you have one.

Most of the little black holes you see in hardwoods when it is green are ambrosia beetles. They will leave when the wood dries.  The holes are easy to identify.  Not a problem.  

There are commercially available insecticides much more aggressive than Timbor, but it's an industry standard because it's effective and very safe.



YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

doc henderson

hey mike, can you post some pics of the holes with a scale and or pics of the grubs, and wood type,  will see if @Wood Doctor  will chime in.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

MikeySP

Thank you Yellow Hammer. 

The logs I am sawing may have all of the above? We are not using it for any furniture grade stuff that I forsee.  Barn, Framing, etc... 

Since my son is framing up his shed office today, I will wait until it is dried in and then spray with my professional insecticide to make sure we do not leave a haven behind the finish wall/ceilling. 

However, I am very interested in more about the commercially available insecticides. I have found a few threads but limited info. Seems Boracare and Timbor dominate on the forum. 

Great idea Doc Henderson. I am working with my son in picking uip some materials/tools this morning, bt will get to sawing in a few hours and I will keep my phone ready for pics as they become available. 

-Mike

YellowHammer

Timbor uses Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate.  Boracare uses an additional ingredient to help it absorb into the wood some small distance.  

The active ingredient is extremely deadly to wood boring insects but also very safe for humans.  It will not break down over time, but is a surface treatment, not killing insects deep in the wood unless injected directly into their galleries or introduced under pressure.  However, it makes a barrier such that insects emerging from the wood are exposed and killed as well as any new insects boring in. Timbor and the like are also very effective for mold and fungus control.  So its a very useful one-two punch, and and considering it doesn't degrade over time (it will get washed away) and that its relatively inexpensive, explains why if is so popular in the industry.

If you have an active infestation, then contact insecticides, such as pyrethrins (I have had good success with Delta Dust), are effective, and other more residual herbicides require a Restricted Use Applicators License, sounds like you may have one, too.  Apply directly as a spray or powder, and watch the critters die.  Termidor, cypermethrin, etc are effective and moderately residual (3 months) and I very rarely use them on my personal wood, and never on a customer's wood due to liability reasons.  I would have to provide SDS with my sales, and customers don't want chemically impregnated wood, even if the surface treatments plane off in the first pass or so, or have degraded over time.  

Its important, for my purposes (others may well do it differently), to treat the wood based not only on the threat of infestation, but also the end user.  So when a customer asks me if I use chemicals on their wood, the answer is always an empathatic "No".

The kiln is the best way to sterilize wood, if you have access to one.  
 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

burtle

Mike,

I'm glad you started this thread!

I'm looking to buy my first mill as well because I want to start a portable mill business on the side of my regular job.

I'm looking at a 2018 LT40 wide.


I've learned a lot from this thread!


Never Give Up

MikeySP

Yellow Hammer, excellent. thank you for the additional data on the insecticides. 

Folks, 

I am sawing up 5/8 x 6" pine lap siding for my son today.

What would you recommend I use for a protective coating? Thomson waterseal I have some on hand? I will spray it for bugs first since it is likely infested.  But, I want to give my son the best possibility to have some longevity from rain and the overhang is very small. I heard of using old motor oil, but am not sure if that would stink? After living in this camper for a year and a half, this oasis for his study will be very welcome to my honorable son. Plus, we get one side of our dinner table back from his little dominion :). I will spray for bugs on all sides. I plan to lay siding out on pallets side by side, spray it, flip it, spray again. We can install and spray water protective layer on office, or we can spray it on the pallets. If i do it on the pallets, I can spray both sides and this may prove a help when splatter goes up and between the boards? 

In my pic below, I am thinking the red pattern is the way to go to lessen the amount of cupping... am I wrong? Does it matter?




 

Skidsteer won't start. I think rain may have gotten to electrical while sitting. Started like a champ the other day. I wish this thing was wired with essentials. All the safeties, computer really make it a bit of a challenge for me. Of well.  I may postpone working on it, so I can saw. I spent most of yesterday helping my son get started on his office. When I finally got to the sawing, I discovered the skidsteer would not start.

-Mike

MikeySP

Hi Burtle! Thank you for chiming in. We have bith learned a lot... you learned it 18 years younger than me.. good for you! :) I hope you have much wisdom and prosper in in accomplishing your vision.

Edgar Guest poem, It Couldn't Be Done, to encourage you:

"Somebody said that it couldn't be done
     But he with a chuckle replied
That "maybe it couldn't," but he would be one
     Who wouldn't say so till he'd tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
     On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
     That couldn't be done, and he did it!

Somebody scoffed: "Oh, you'll never do that;
     At least no one ever has done it;"
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat
     And the first thing we knew he'd begun it.
With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
     Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
     That couldn't be done, and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
     There are thousands to prophesy failure,
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
     The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle in with a bit of a grin,
     Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start in to sing as you tackle the thing
     That "cannot be done," and you'll do it."

-Mike

Magicman

I would not saw red.  I would saw down to the blue from each side and edge those flitches.  I would then saw ~1/3 of blue, rotate the cant 180°, and saw through. 

Now when installing; orient the boards so that the pith side is toward the outside of the building.  (Bark side toward the building.)  This will cause the edges of the boards to tend to cup toward the building.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

YellowHammer

FWIW, I agree completely with MM.  The goal for flat sawn lumber is to always try to center the axis of the board with the axis of the log, no matter how far away.  Center the axis as best you can and balance the board.  Much better behaved lumber that way.  

Sawing red is a modified quartersawing pattern and will reduce cup in some of the boards but they will curve and need to be edged after drying.  If you were sawing red, stay well away from the pith or the boards will dry like McDonalds Golden Arches.  Not really a good sawing pattern for siding.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

MikeySP


MikeySP

The lap siding will not be getting kiln dried. The logs have sat for six months to a year. When he attaches the siding this coming week it will be done as shown in illustration below. Will the fact that the pine is not kiln dried cause us a lot of grief? 

-Mike

 

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