couple pics... post what your currently cutting

ehp · August 12, 2019, 07:05:08 PM

its nothing great but its work, I try never to cut good timber in the heat . First is a soft maple from today and yes its white thank God

ehp · August 12, 2019, 07:06:09 PM

next is just a red oak from this morning

ehp · August 12, 2019, 07:07:01 PM

next is a couple of bur oak from this morning

ehp · August 12, 2019, 08:21:03 PM

yes I know I got 3 chokers on the mainline but I can go weeks without ever pulling 3 trees at once , most trees are quite long and heavy

ehp · August 12, 2019, 08:23:42 PM

SD, I have gotten $8 a foot for high grade maple here and in usa coin. The best I have ever done is $7 a ft on ever log that made veneer on whole bush, that was some nice stuff

olcowhand · August 13, 2019, 04:00:37 AM

Ed,
That isn't one of your favorite 462s on those logs. Are you still "trying out" the 572, or is she your "Steady Girl" now?
Steve

thecfarm · August 13, 2019, 05:11:34 AM

@ehp Nice looking wood you keep getting. Around here most of the bigs ones are gone. You could use more than 3 chokers around here.

SwampDonkey · August 13, 2019, 06:31:59 AM

ehp, Miller Veneers were paying around $6000 MBFM before the big collapse. Never seen them since. Those Columbia prices are way better than pulp though and they are practically next door. Presque Isle, Maine is only 25 miles away. And they always pay the trucking. I would imagine them big prices is needed your way to get the wood. Here we are clear cutting away every day and the veneer is just the gravey. Most big cutters don't bother with hardwood logs, because you need yard space and the volume is in pulp grade. Takes a long time to get a load of good stuff. Getting even harder with a clear cut mind set since the 1980's.

The thing about Columbia was that they would come around to look at small volumes and even help the woodlot owner with where the best cut would be to get the best grade. The hardwood saw mills could care less around here, they get 99% of their wood off crown land for peanuts. They sort the figured stuff for the gravy. Bigger wood off crown, although most hardwood I see now is second growth off them lots that was mulled over 30 years ago for the better stuff. Cutting the junk that was left before.

ehp · August 13, 2019, 06:54:44 AM

I fall the timber with 462's and buck up with 572's , I got a couple hundred feet of chain and a pile of bars for husky's so might as well use it

Old Greenhorn · August 13, 2019, 07:01:15 AM

Quote from: Skeans1 on June 05, 2019, 10:30:27 PM

Hey @Skeans1 I made a mental note of this when you posted it because I thought it was a great idea but I never thought I would have a use with the smaller stems I do. Well last night I looked at a 'problem tree' It's a Mockernut Hickory and the top half is broke off but still connected well. The butt log is about 28" DBH and it's around 32" at the stump. It's on a side hill and the loading is 'complex' with the leaders that are tipped into the ground providing support. They will have to be 'relieved' in a careful manner before felling. Some will be left to encourage the tree to go the right way. The fall will have to be uphill and 90° to the direction of the bent off top, which would be easy (sort of). However, given the slope of about 45° I am pretty sure it will all slide downhill. If log extraction is possible, it will have to be uphill. I don't want the log to go far, I put it at about 5-7,000#. This cut you describe would be the ticket here. If I make that snipe a bit heavy, when the stem comes down it should butt on that snipe and hold the tree from sliding off. Is there any particular formula you use to figure out how wide (tall) the block face is? I am thinking you just want the bar height and no more. How deep would you go with the cut in the face, 30-40% of the diameter?
There are a bunch of challenges with this one besides what I mentioned. I am concerned that the 'elbow' will try to straighten once the loading is off of it. I am also concerned that the butt will lift up as the tree rolls over a hum in the ground. I don't have a cable available for this one. I am not too hopeful we can get the log out with the circumstances and the gear we have, but the tree needs to come down. Any advice on the mechanics would be appreciated. Also, I would like to bore the back cut and leave a strap so that I can get it the safest position before I clip it loose. The hinge will have to be thinner than normal for a tree this size because I don't have all the weight up top. The footing there is not so great. I am uncertain of how it would go if I chase it and I think I might need some running room/time but a few seconds should do it. ;D I have never cut Hickory before so really don't know what to expect.

Skeans1 · August 13, 2019, 07:48:30 AM

When we put the blocks in there's two ways, one is you sight in first with a flat block the second is to start with a humboldt and then a Saginaw face then block out the block. As to how far we go in depends on what the tree needs some of my faces are 60%, to boring the back cut kind of defeats the purpose of the face it really slows down the fall by allowing the hinge wood to bend vs the hinge wood snapping.

This is a block with a snipe on the stump, when figuring out how big to make the face it has a lot of variables like ground and the tree. If I was doing what you're doing I'd put a steep humboldt in the stump and chase the back so you have control of the tree. Can I ask why you guys like to bore every back cut? It's more work it wears you out faster it's harder on your equipment with the extra vibrations and you're not gaining any control.

Old Greenhorn · August 13, 2019, 09:28:33 AM

Just a real quick reply as I am loaded right now, but I understand your last question. I don't have to bore cut everything, but in this case, my thought was to bore cut so I could from a nice even hinge before I clipped it. When you chase it, and it starts to go, you still need to hang in for a few seconds to finish. I really don't want to hang for those few seconds because there is so much odd loading on this mess that I am not totally sure what it might do. That was my thought anyway.

Lumberjohn · August 15, 2019, 09:44:22 PM

I cant speak for everyone but I only bore cut leaning trees. If they are standing plumb or so I just follow the cut to the hinge.

Old Greenhorn · August 15, 2019, 10:17:51 PM

Here is the tree in question. My thoughts are control of it coming down, and escape time, there are a LOT of odd forces here and this is not a small tree. It is (of course) on a slope, so footing is an issue also. You could easily class it as a leaner because of the loading, hence my thought on the bore cut.

Skeans1 · August 15, 2019, 10:41:27 PM

Something like that I'd use a humdboldt face with a stepped back cut and chase the back cut you need to see what's going on there's no feel with back boring it. If you want something that will hold on the stump really well try a coos style/triangle back cut. Without being there I cant say for sure but that's what I'd do. How long of a bar are you running?

barbender · August 16, 2019, 01:17:52 AM

A tree like that is really hard to judge in person, let alone from a picture. That top laying on the ground and pushing back will make things really unpredictable!

Old Greenhorn · August 16, 2019, 06:03:41 AM

Quote from: Skeans1 on August 15, 2019, 10:41:27 PM
Something like that I'd use a humdboldt face with a stepped back cut and chase the back cut you need to see what's going on there's no feel with back boring it. If you want something that will hold on the stump really well try a coos style/triangle back cut. Without being there I cant say for sure but that's what I'd do. How long of a bar are you running?

I can run up to a 28" bar, on a 70cc saw so I am not worried on that score. I will see if I can find something on the back cut you mention. Here is a photo from the right, or fellers point of view. I would like to fell the tree to the left in this photo, uphill. I planned to relieve the leader on the left first, this is not so tricky once I take the stress off of it. (If you could look at it you would likely agree, it is lightly loaded at this point.) I can't clear that leader very high off the ground, but I am hoping once it begins to fall it will just keep going up hill, if it hangs on that leader like a chair leg, I can rope the leg and yank it down hill to finish the fall.

I am still playing with this in my head. I will likely leave it to the pro guy that does their work because he has the equipment, but this won't be easy for him either because getting to the tree is a challenge too. That is just a footpath you see going under the tree (hence the need for removal). AT the very least, I will leave it for a few months until the fall when I have more urgent stuff done.

Old Greenhorn · August 16, 2019, 06:55:58 AM

@Skeans1 I looked up the coos cut, I knew this, but had forgotten. in the process I found a few of your comments (and also learned again of your disdain for the face and bore cut :D). This tree is a good candidate for what you suggest and I can see how it will allow some time and good control. Not sure if I should gut out a little bit of the hinge because of the reduced top weight.
I'll keep thinking on this. I like puzzles and this is one. ;D

Skeans1 · August 16, 2019, 07:52:26 AM

@Old Greenhorn
Another good safer option is to quarter it up to the left falling it from the left side(far side). This is a candidate for a standard back cut you need the feedback from the tree just in case you need to pound wedges. If you do this you'll find out quick why we love a full wrap saws you can fall far side without having to back bar the sight and face out.

doc henderson · August 16, 2019, 11:30:28 AM

how stable is that top, and the connection to the base. can you get a mule with a winch back there and pull the top to the side out from under it. if it snaps and falls then you are working with a safer overall situation. or truck, or tractor? or winch from another tree.

Old Greenhorn · August 16, 2019, 11:56:58 AM

The top is attached fairly well. Breaking it with small equipment is not likely and it is a difficult 200' cable run. I can re-look at it from the downhill/downwind side to see if I can get better vehicle access. When I trim some of the leaders, it might break, but I stand dubious at this point. there is little chance of getting any equipment close to it, so I wold have to climb to get a high line on it. Not my favorite thing. ;D

Corley5 · August 16, 2019, 02:19:52 PM

I'd start with the top and cut back towards the trunk as far as I could until it was hanging freely or better yet it rolled and fell off the stem on its own. Cutting it off at the stump with top contacting the ground as it is would be a very last resort for me. I'd let it age and see what happens.

BAN · August 16, 2019, 03:02:24 PM

I agree with corley on starting with the top and chunking it up as much as safely possible. Could you fall one of the bigger trees behind it across the broken top to knock that to the ground first?

SwampDonkey · August 16, 2019, 05:20:05 PM

Me 3, I do it that way with all my trees that look like that. That way I ain't under noth'n. I ain't trying to give any advice, it's just what I do.

olcowhand · August 16, 2019, 06:00:15 PM

Quote from: Corley5 on August 16, 2019, 02:19:52 PM
I'd start with the top and cut back towards the trunk as far as I could until it was hanging freely or better yet it rolled and fell off the stem on its own. Cutting it off at the stump with top contacting the ground as it is would be a very last resort for me. I'd let it age and see what happens.

I too agree; back cut up through those top branches until you know that the top won't influence the fall. There's still a lot of stored energy in that top as you're working it down (up?), and if it parts from the stem, there's no way to know where it will fall, so keep your head on a swivel, OG.
Good luck, and like I tell my wife sometimes: "I need someone to come watch me do this so you can tell the first responders where to dig me out of..." (meaning "alive").