Need advice: Cleanup and reforestation of 253 acres

[RAW]

Howdy, all.

Let me introduce myself.  I'm Reuben.  I have zero forestry experience.  I have very, very minor equipment experience.
And the wife and I have purchased 253 acres in western North Carolina.  The terrain is quite steep, as you can imagine.

And that's where I need help.  We bought the property a couple of years ago.  At some point within the last five to ten years, the property was logged by its former owners.  Unfortunately, this left a huge mess of downed trees and slash piles and now briars and clogging undergrowth. 

The good thing about the logging is that there are lots of roads cut in around the property.  I'd like to connect some of the dead-ends and keep most of these roads open as walking/ATV trails.

I'd like to be able to clean the property up over time.  I'd like to get rid of the downed trees and trash piles.  I'd like to clear out the heavy undergrowth and briars.  I know that is a huge undertaking, but I'm not quite 30, so I've got some years left to do it. 

Initially what I'd like to do is clean up targeted areas.  For example, there are a few creeks on the property that have lovely flat areas around them.  Those areas would be great to clear with pleasantly spaced trees for a more "picnic-friendly" area.

In addition to the clearing of dead trees, limbs, and undergrowth, I'd like to be able to reshape some of the trails and create some new connections.  There will also be the need to occasionally clear snow from our steep 3/4 mile, paved driveway.  Along this driveway, I will also need to clear the drainage ditch and hopefully cut the vegetation on the bank.  There is an additional 1/4 mile of drive that leads from our house-site to my studio/workshop.  That road will only be gravel and will need to be maintained.

I started with the idea of getting a 4x4 tractor and some good attachments (PTO chipper, grapple, rotary cutter), but then I thought a skidsteer like the ASV would be great with a mulching attachment (like the Tushogg or similar), and then I thought a compact excavator would be perfect with a flail-head mower (capable of 4" cutting cap) and an assortment of buckets.  I think the ideal tool for the job would be a larger excavator with a rotary disc mulcher from Advanced Forest.  But I don't have 90grand or more to spend on the combo.

So, I thought I'd solicit opinions from you guys.  I followed a link from a tractor forum over here and it seems like y'all know your stuff.  Most of the tractor discussions on the internet are about compact tractors and mowing flat lawns and moving trees over flat terrain. 

What do y'all think?

I'll start posting some pics of the property in my next post.

Thanks and greetings from the noob.

[RAW]

--Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!--/gallery/581038"]General pics of the terrain[/url]


I can get up almost all of the trails on my ATV (though I did roll one over backwards in one spot).

My concern with skidsteers was that they wouldn't be good on uneven, sloped terrain.  In one of the other threads here by Catvet, that issue was addressed.  And skidsteers and tractors both are limited to cutting what they can drive over.

The excavator, with its 15ft+ of reach can cut and grab and dig places that the excavator can't get to.  But from what I've seen, excavators are pretty good at going just about anywhere and making a road for themselves if the going gets tough.

Here are some links to excavator cutting heads:
http://www.usmower.com/page6.html
http://rockhound.com/page4.html
http://www.brownbronto.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

And if money was no object:
http://www.advancedforest.com/index.htm
http://www.slashbuster.com/land-clearing.htm

[Don K]

Don't Have much to offer in the way of advice, but welcome to the Forum. There are some pretty sharp folks here that can help though. ;D         Looks like some pretty country, your young enough to enjoy it as you improve it also.

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum. Pics are nice, but I didn't find them in the gallery. Check it out, as per the 'procedures' of a great forum, and looks like you can make it even greater.

[Tom]

Welcome to the Forum, RAW.

The pictures are good but need to be put on the forum gallery.   We try to stay away from linking to other picture storage sites here.  If for no other reason, it can disrupt a thread later when that site removes the pictures.  You already understand the "speed" thing.

As far as equipment is concerned, Keep in mind that 250 acres, as big a piece of ground as it is, still is not so much that one can't consider leasing or renting equipment.  I think I would rent until I decided what I needed.  In the end you will probably find that your needs will lean toward smaller and smaller tractors.  In the beginning you will need some macho stuff and probably even an experienced operator.

A good place to start with suggestions on how to accomplish what you want is to contact you county forester.  There are programs, which he will be aware of, that make government employees available to help you design workable plans.  When working in Water Sheds, creating specific forests, planning recreational spots, taking care of game, etc.  It sure helps to get as many heads envolved as possible.

Now, some, me included, have a problem with too much government hands-on.  Your forester would understand a request to keep it low key and you might really benefit by his help.

Don't just go buy a piece of equipment because it solves one of your problems.  You will find that heavy equipment is fairly specific to a task and  you might be putting it up for sale sooner than you had planned.

[RAW]

Tom,

Sorry about the pics thing.  I've fixed that post to include links to my Smugmug galleries.
There are also a couple of tiny pics in my gallery.

I definitely plan on talking to a forester in the area.
I've done lots of research and it looks like it's possible to get financial incentives for reforestation, where you get re-imbursed 40-60%
http://www.dfr.state.nc.us/starting/starting_incentives.htm

Some of the forestry people in the area should be familiar with my property already.  From what the neighbors have said, they used the property as a "training class" at one point during the logging.

And you've definitely hit on my strategy:  I plan on renting several different pieces of equipment over the next year to get a feel for what is the most useful up there.  I would agree that it doesn't make any sense for me to purchase a $200K excavator for myself.  I'm figuring that I can hire someone with that equipment to do the big work (when I stop hemmorhaging money).  And then look at more of a maintenance role for my own piece of equipment.

I hope that when I talk to a forester, that he/she can come up with a good plan for getting the land healthy and sustainable.  I'd think that at the very least, they'd see all of the downed trees as a fire hazard--especially considering that I'm bordered by national forest along the Appalachian Trail.

[Phorester]

As Tom says, definitely talk to a professional forester before you start anything.  You've got a lot of good ideas, but don't keep them etched in stone.  Be ready to revise them when you talk to that Forester.

Have some objectives and goals in mind for the property: " I want to hunt grouse, I want to catch trout from that stream, I want to preserve that area for picnicing, I want to create a healthy forest, I want to have a timber harvest to provide income in 20 years," etc.  these are goals.  Clearing projects, trail building, etc. are not goals.  They are ways to reach a goal.

[BrandonTN]

Welcome to the board, RAW!  I'm about as inexperienced in forestry as you, if not more so, and I've found this place to be chunked full of seemingly useful info. 

You said you have a studio/workshop...what sort of work do you do, if you don't mind me asking? 

[crtreedude]

Just a really wild idea here - I know I used to go to an older gentleman's farm which had logged sections and remove the tops for firewood.  This worked really well because I would clean up an area, get free wood and he would have the place cleaned up better.

What with the cost of fuel, etc, it just might be a way for you to have some cleanup done. Of course, you are going to have to use some people you will trust.

Fred

[RAW]

Brandon, I'm a sculptor kinda.   ;)  I'm really just getting started.  I work primarily in steel.

Treedude, I had the same idea.  I've actually already told one of my neighbors up there that he's welcome to ANY of the wood that's already down.  He and his family heat entirely on woodheat.

He actually just got himself a wood-mizer, I think.  He's been selectively cutting a bunch of timber on his own property.


Do any of y'all happen to know about how much it would cost me per acre to have someone do brush/slashpile/dead tree removal?

Something like this:
http://www.slashbuster.com/images/Slashbusterbeforeandafter.jpg

[SwampDonkey]

RAW, welcome aboard.

Looks like your property is all up hill and only flat on two small sections of the property line. What are the darker green sections? Reserves/Townships?? I see some scattered all over your topo map.

If I was in your shoes I'de grab the hand of some reputable forester and have him/her draw up a management plan. Your ground might look like a nightmare from the road, so to speak, but after 10 years you'de be surprised what's growing there. It might not all be preferred species, but as you'll discover from the multitudes of threads on this forum, people can make use of just about any tree species. The tendancy of some folks in the industry is the work against nature and plant species not neccessarily best adapted to the local ecology. On a site that has so much hillside, I'de be willing to work more with nature. If you find that you have a good stocking of trees coming back, you'll be further ahead than trying to introduce new trees on the site. Those areas along your streams will be the most productive of all and declines as you climb them hillsides. I'de start with the most productive sites and work outword.

If you work with your ground and follow the natural benches in the hillside (broken terrain) you can make yourself connecting trails with the least erosion. If your terrain is more uniform, it's going to be more challenging to place your trails.

We've thinned some nice hardwood ground on some 'uphill' terrain here (30 %+) at times (sugar maple, yellow birch, ash), but of course not all sites are 'pretty'. Those hillside sites are a good way to improve your physique. ;D

Best of luck with this long term project. ;)

[SwampDonkey]

Do any of y'all happen to know about how much it would cost me per acre to have someone do brush/slashpile/dead tree removal?

Something like this:
http://www.slashbuster.com/images/Slashbusterbeforeandafter.jpg

I would hazard a guess of $300/acre, but on your ground with hill sides probably $450/acre. I wouldn't even be bothered, that stuff breaks down pretty fast over a 10 year period, unless you have alot of large woody debris. Hardwood sites aren't as prone to fire as softwood sites are, at least not up here. I realize too, that you guys have hotter summers. If it's just tops mostly, I wouldn't get excited. You'll probably do more damage to your regrowth and kick youself in the behind for doing it. ;)

[Cedarman]

Time is going to be your best ally.  Your pine tops will melt down in a few years and in 5 to 6 years a lot of the hardwood tops will be laying pretty low.  As new saplings reach for the sky they will over top the briars and things which will slowly die out as the small trees grow bigger and shade the understory out.
Make sure you have good erosion control on the roads.  Install water bars where needed.  Make sure the water bars direct the water into the woods to  soak in rather than a gully or stream bed.

Getting a good consultant as SD mentioned is great idea.  The wildlife people might have some ideas for the areas you want to clear, too.

Take a look at other areas that were logged 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago.  This may give you an idea of the progression your woods will take as time goes by.

Good luck on your new venture.

[Ianab]

I'm with Cedarman here, let nature do most of the work.

The tops will rot down in time, at the moment they are shelter for wildlife and seedling trees. Work with this. If you go in and clean up everything now you will be starting again with bare ground instead of the first stage of regenerating forest.

Spend your time and $$ maintaining the trails, streams, and some localised tidy up for picnic / camp grounds. 90% of the ground will need very little work but a local forestor will be able to advise you on how to encourage the desirable trees, thin out the extras or unwanted types etc.

Remember.. if you do NOTHING to the land it will be a good forest in 50 years time. Work with it and it can be a nicer forest in 30 years.

Cheers

Ian

[nurseb]

Welcome to the forum.

Since I've been stump farming for now 30 years, i'd like to hazard a few thoughts.  Talking with a forester and someone who knows something about your soils I think would be very helpful.   I wish I would have done that sooner.   Putting together a plan that identifies your goals, your strengths and weaknesses, the land's characteristics, the legal evironment and any zoning or development constraints could help you in terms of prioritizing your efforts or capital allocation.  I started logging with a 19 hp kubota, went to a JD 555 for its versitility and finally figured our that for the amount of digging and road construction I was planning that I needed a medium sized excavator.   This happened as I started to place a value on my time and as I considered how much work there was to do and how little I could accomplish.   The internal combustion engine is my friend!!!   All this happened as my plans evolved and changed as I learned more of our land, its climate and the siliculture of our trees.

Planning forced me to address competing values on our land; aesthetics, timber production, annual income, soil improvement, wildlife development, etc.   How much of your labor do you want to capitalize?   Is this a hobby or a business or a love affair?  How much capital do your want tied up in your land?   I found that I'm working more like a hobbiest or  doing a labor of love and consequently I have more labor invested in our timber and land than what the timber and land are actually worth.   If I wanted to get rich I'd do better working at a job and investing in Pfizer and GE than doing precommercial thinning or fuels reduction.   But I have memories of working the pine with my father, planting with my father,  etc so my working the forest is for me some other than just a commerical venture.   

I'd also  encourage looking at the osha sites regarding logging and construction equipment accidents so you have an idea of some of the risks your might be  facing working a hillside.  There are a lotta ways to get yourself killed or maimed out there.  Much of what you might need to know might very well not reside in books etc.

From the stand point of treatment of brush, you very well could have enough ground to merit renting say a timbco 425 with a mastication or slasher head to speed the recovery of your land.  We contracted some fuels reduction last year using this kind of equipment.   It has its pluses and minuses.   It can improve the aesthetics, but on our ground from a purely financial point of view it was no a wise investment.  YOur soils and climate combined with the right species of hardwood might merit more aggressive intervention from a purely financial point of view.  You'd hvae to run a spreadsheet or two to find out.

From the point of view of having a life,  I can't think of a better thing than to care for and improve the land.   One rancher from Wallowa County said "you take care of the land and it will take care of you."     And it will in so many ways.  Good luck and God Bless

[thecfarm]

Welcome to the forum.I'm trying to claim back an old pasture,kinda the same,but at a much smaller scale. Around your creeks,could you chip the brush,a good size one can be rented,or haul the brush off to burn or just pile the brush up for animals.I have piled brush up like this,but you will be looking at it for at least 10 years.I finally got sick of looking at 3 piles and hauled the rotten mass off with my tractor.A cheap lawn mower will chew up alot of small brush.I do this at my place.It's hard to get a bush hog around all of the stumps.A cheap mower works great.May take longer,but it does a much better job like what you are looking for around the creeks for pinic area.I have one area that I have trees 4-6 feet apart.Be impossible to get any tractor through there with out barking the trees up.That cheap mower is used again.I get alot of complanments on this area.There isn't a tree smaller than 4 inches through.Just something else to think about.Maybe you can work on certain areas and let the others go.Just remember the more you clean up,the more you have to keep cleaned up.Takes about 5 years where you can start to relax on an area and not have to mow it once a month or more.It's alot of work,but it mostly alot of time to claim land back.

[Woodhog]

Maybe a used dozer would work for you....

You wont be able to use anything with rubber tires on a freshly logged piece that someone else chopped off, most likely the tires would be destroyed very quickly with sharp stumps etc...

It would stomp down the smaller brush and make it rot up more quickly, you might be able to dig holes and bury some of the larger stuff in out of the way spots....if the bottom is not too hard, rocks etc....



It would make quick work of the briar patches....


It might work on your road system also depending on the terrain...

Rent one and try it...

I would rent everything first rather than buy something that may not work for your situation...


The excavator  would be best but very expensive...

Sounds like lots of fun, over a long period of time...

good luck...

[maple flats]

Welcome to the FF. I agree with the majority above. Get a forester to help YOU work out a management plan. Think out what you want the farest to look like in 5 yrs, 10 yrs and even 20 yrs. List the things in no particular order, just ideas. Then get the forester in to study your piece of heaven. Ask the forester to keep your ideas in mind but to also make suggestions that may give you some new direction based on what he sees. I do think that you would most likely be best letting nature do most of the work with some gentle assistance from you. The mess will take care of itself but you can give it a gentle nudge by lowering the trash height. Cut some limbs and let things lay on the ground. Do not go in and try to make it all what you think is a picture perfect woods or erosion will be your enemy. The trash IS performing a valuable function and the native trees are coming back. The trash protects the seedlings while they get a good start. With nothing done this woods would show very few indicators of the mess in 20 years or so to the untrained eye. You can gently speed this up. The forester will be working for you so be sure he is doing as you request. This being said I would get 2 foresters in. The first would be from the state, county or some other governmental entity who will only be able to do some basics because of bugetary and time constraints. After that further develope your goals and now hire a professional forester who is working solely for you and not a timber co, logger or anyone else who will not truly be making suggestions to your best interest. After all of this finalize your management plan written specifically for you and enjoy the work. It will most likely end up giving you many more ideas for your sculpting and time to cultivate the ideas. In the end you can and will have a forest that you and nature designed together and that will be very self satisfying. Go at it and good luck.

[RAW]

Thanks for all of the great replies!

I was aware that I needed to leave some of the downed trees on road banks to help keep the banks from eroding, but I hadn't considered that the detritus was keeping new seeds in place and helping that way.  Good info.  For the trees that have fallen but are being held aloft by other trees:  Should I drop them?

I know that an adult canopy will eventually kill off the briars, but I'm concerned about the adult canopy.  Since the logging removed ALL of the biggest trees, I'm left with a lot of tall, very skinny hardwoods.  There is almost no pine on the property.  Lots of Mtn. Laurel around the creeks, but . . . that's the only evergreen.  I'm afraid that these tall, skinny trees are just going to keep falling as a result of wind and ice.  Am I correct in assuming that adult trees continue to grow in girth?  I forget all of my biology info about meristems and all that.  :D

So, if I'm getting the general picture from y'all, it's this:  Leave most of the debris how it is.  The closer to the ground the better.  Clean up select areas and focus on those and the trails and let the rest do what it's going to do.  Is that about right?

I know that I need to have a forester come in, but it'll be nice to see how his opinion compares to the general concensus here.  I also know a girl in Asheville who works for a land planning firm.  We've gone to the same schools since elementary school.  But we mostly ran in different crowds.  Then we ran into each other again last year.  Crazy.  She's very interested to come take a look and see what her people can offer.

Another question for you:  Some of the slash piles are enormous and comprised of portions of gigantic trees.  What should I do with those piles?  Would it be feasible to spread them out a bit with a bulldozer?  And then is there anything like a moss or something that I could spread/spray over the pile to help it "digest" faster?

I'm going to take my friend's Deere up there in the next couple of weeks.  I just plan on riding around on some of the trails and moving some dirt and stuff around.  I want to get a good feel for what it's capable of. 

Then I'd like to rent a dozer to clear off the back of the knoll that my shop is on.  I figure it'd be a pretty good place to experiment and practice.  Then I'll probably hydroseed that portion.

Thanks again for all of the input.  Keep it coming! 

[Ianab]

Since the logging removed ALL of the biggest trees, I'm left with a lot of tall, very skinny hardwoods.  There is almost no pine on the property.  Lots of Mtn. Laurel around the creeks, but . . . that's the only evergreen.  I'm afraid that these tall, skinny trees are just going to keep falling as a result of wind and ice.

Thats the sort of question a local forestor can answer. The trees may be OK to grow into the next crop, or they may be the suppressed rubbish that should be taken out to make space for new trees. Local knowledge will come into play here.

Am I correct in assuming that adult trees continue to grow in girth?

yup... the tree will grow an extra growth ring on the trunk per year, as long as it's a healthy vigourous specimen. If the trees left are strong, healthy and were just not old enough to harvest, then they may grow into decent trees. Or they may just be the runts left behind.

Best way to get the tops to break down faster is cut them up so they sit on the ground and stay damp. Then the fungus will get into them much quicker.

Be carefull dropping those leaning trees, very dangerous as the leaning trunks are under a lot of tension. If you can drag them down with a bulldozer it's much safer.

Cheers

Ian

[jon12345]

I noticed a pic of a 4wheeler on your page,  don't overlook the possibilites that can give you for trail building/improvement, or dragging brush to piles to burn of consolidation.

You could probably deal with large 'garbage' piles simply by planting conifers around them or at least block them from your viewshed.  They will decay eventually and in the mentime provide wildlife habitat.

How far do the flat areas extend from the streams?  You may want to plant some buffer trees near them as an area to avoid simply by noting their presence when you go to harvest in the future.  These trees could be for wildlife or to add diversity to your property.

Some species are very susceptible to wind damage once they have been cleared, but the risk diminished by deep soil and deeper rooting trees.  If the trees aren't worth the risk of leaving them there and ending up with a mess, when you can clear them now, then now is the time to do it.  The trees will probably also be more merchantable since they haven't been on the ground for an extended period of time.  The trees could also be suppressed to the point that the release they recieved during the last harvest won't result in a major growth increase.  Some species will also degrade after being released because of epicormic branching once sunlight reaches their bark.  Soil compaction may also give you trouble if the skid trails were heavily used and continue to be.  Another problem from skidding is bumper trees getting banged up.  Some outfits use harvest trees as bumpers so they can be removed last, however, not all operations do this.  The result being valuable timber (depending on species) recieving damage to what is usually the highest grade log in the tree.

Good luck and have fun 

[RAW]

I've been looking at different ATV attachments.  But most of them seem underpowered at best.  And for seed spreading and stuff, they just don't have the capacity I'd need.  I'd have to "return to base" for a refill every few hundred feet!  :D

The flat areas extend 40 feet or more in some areas around the creeks.  Actually, having hiked the streambeds, I was surprised to find that most of the bottom areas are wet.  Areas that look like solid ground with grass are actually just more stream covered by rocks and debris and moss and grass that has attached to the debris.  But there are some areas that are good and solid around the creeks.  And I'd like to preserve and improve those areas.  One of those areas also happens to be an old homesite.  From what I get from the neighbors, a house used to be down there (it was crushed in the logging--but you can still see remnants) with an orchard.  The orchard is gone now, but there's a good, gently sloped area down there that would be nice to rehab.

I'm gonna call a forester later this week and try to set up a meeting.
I'll keep y'all posted. 

[bushhog]

Have you considered using goats for the smaller stuff?  They will eat anything within reach - Your main concern will be predators and water supply.  They also prefer smaller areas of confine too - portable electric fencing works.

I usually hire out the big jobs and burn the brush/log piles (check local regs first) -

You will also probably need to pick up a 4x4 tractor to use on your drive, orchard, and general use -

Careful on the slope work!

And oh yea, don't forget to take some time to enjoy your beautiful property

[Tillaway]

Do not overlook the fact that there may be some grant money around to help you do what you want.  A good consulting forester should know where these are and be able to secure some if your project warrants it.  Fire districts out west are getting fed money for fuels reduction under the National Fire Plan also soil and water conservation districts and various state agencies may have funding available.

[RAW]

I have totally considered getting some goats up there!  I just know nothing about raising goats.  Like--do they need extra nutrition other than the saplings and grass and such?  What about veterinary care?  I'm just clueless about livestock.

And as for the grant money, that's something I just found out about in all of my internet searching.  I think I linked a page a few posts back.  I didn't know that they'd do the reimbursing and all that.  Definitely going to ask the forester and the consultant I know.

I'm going to call the forestry department on Tuesday and try to set up an appointment.

[jon12345]

Here, you can get money off your taxes for having a management plan, but sometimes they are pretty picky about who writes it, and you have to strictly follow the plan.

Goats diet can be supplemented with license plates, tin cans, laundry hangin on clothesline, roses,,,,  :D :D

[Ron Scott]

With 253 acres of forest land with several management issues and concerns to address, the use of a certified professional forester is recommended. Some management opportunities may also be provided. :P

Use of some professional judgement before hand will be better than after the fact.

[getoverit]

I dont know how open you are to the idea, but I know of a couple of ATV clubs in the Western Carolina/ N.E. Georgia region that may be interested in partnering up with you and helping you clean up the place in exchange for an exclusive place to ride their ATV's.

Send me a Private Message if this interests you and I'll Give you a telephone number and name to get ya started.

[RAW]

I dont know how open you are to the idea, but I know of a couple of ATV clubs in the Western Carolina/ N.E. Georgia region that may be interested in partnering up with you and helping you clean up the place in exchange for an exclusive place to ride their ATV's.

Send me a Private Message if this interests you and I'll Give you a telephone number and name to get ya started.

While I might be tempted, the wife says, "Hell no."   :D
I guess she figures that it's bad enough that I'll be riding my ATV around and practicing with my long-range rifle. 

[Luckyfarmer]

you will need to park a car or truck for them to sleep on..they will climb on the roof..they are fun to have and love company .  they will get all the food they need from shrubs and trees :D :D

[RAW]

I've got an email in to a company in Charleston, SC (a bit far away) about land-clearing.
They use the Gyro-trac machines that I mentioned in the other thread.

I'm curious to find out more about their rates (and if maybe they happen to have used equipment for sale!).

I'm going to start calling some land-clearing companies out of the Asheville phonebook soon.
And I've got that meeting with a land-management firm next Friday.

I'll keep y'all updated (ifn y'all care).

[bull]

welcome aboard,,,   -30 YOA decisions,decisions......
land looks pretty good in the pic's provided  " get some wider views.... great wildlife habitat.
What are your plans " homeland,farm, wood lot, realestate for resale etc ?????
A good bulldozer or excavator with blade.. get pushin open up a few acres of good ground and keep planning !!
Get a forester and plan out the good forest land.. you have regeneration etc....  Also get intouch w/ FSA and NRCS
re funding for land clearing  WHIP/ EQUIP/GRP.... ETC... many cost sharing plans.....   Good luck !!!

[snowman]

As for the piles, nothing like good ole FIRE! Your land sounds great, id park out the creeks and places you wanna hang out, the more remote places , just chop everything into smallest pieces you can, get it on the ground, itll dissapear amazingly fast, word of advice, chaps, saw proof boots.

[SwampDonkey]

I don't think he's gonna have time for his day job with all this brush cutting, piling and burning.  :D

[snowman]

 He's young, it will keep him out of trouble next 20 years or so

[maple flats]

Before you attempt to cut any standing leaners or tensioned saplings I highly reccommend attending a GOL (Game Of Logging) class. This class will teach you the safe way to make safe cuts, how to releave the tension on springpoles (trees bent over by another tree falling on it) and how to drop a tree so as to safely deal with the forces involved. This is the safty course for both professionals and woodlot owner do it your selfers. There are many levels of training and you likely only need the basic beginners course. I have been cutting trees for over 40 years and I started doing it a whole new way after I attended only a introductory recruitment type course. The trees now fall with a much higher level of safety for me. A course like this could save your life and WILL make you respect the endeaver much more, most likely get it done faster BUT never hurry it.

[Ron Scott]

Ditto! I just attended a basic game of logging session on chain saw preparation and tree falling a few days ago while it was being given to some very experienced loggers.

Even as a consulting forester, it was well worth my time.

[RAW]

Before you attempt to cut any standing leaners or tensioned saplings I highly reccommend attending a GOL (Game Of Logging) class.

Where would I find a class/seminar like that?
Sounds like very useful information.

[SwampDonkey]

I was just looking for a follow up. My initial thoughts were someone's eyes are bigger than the plate he's feeding from. A lot of talk about buying and expenses, including the purchase of the woodlot, and no short term returns. I wish him the best and hope he has a good day job. ;)

[RAW]

Howdy!  It's been a long time since I've checked in over here.  I'm actually surprised that this topic notification got through.  Most of these are nabbed by bellsouth, and I never see replies.

Anyway . . . no progress on the cleanup efforts yet.  My wife and I are still trying to get our house built.  We ran into problems with our concrete sub-contractor, so . . . now it looks like we'll be tearing down what was started and beginning anew.  And because of these setbacks, we are still living in Georgia.

This entire project isn't about turning a profit on a woodlot.  (not that I'd be against it . . .) This is our home.  The previous owners (a bunch of heirs) decided to timber the property with very little concern for the health of the forest.  We're just looking t spend our lifetimes improving the property to eventually pass to our child/children or sign over into preservation.  If we can speed the natural process along a bit and enjoy the results sooner than 50 years out . . . . . . . . that'd be fantastic.

In the beginning, I was hoping to purchase a piece of equipment that would be perfect for our purposes around our acreage.  And then also use that equipment to make a little cash on the side.  Initially, I was thinking that a tracked skid-steer with a mulcher (fecon, fae, tushogg, etc) would be an excellent niche machine.  But I was never comfortable with the financial stretch and risk. 

Anyway, the plan now is to get this house/contractor/legal stuff ironed out, then move up there, then purchase a tractor wth grapple and some sort of cutter (flail, rotary).  I'll mostly just be keeping the existing logging trails clean (they've got 4-5 inch diameter locust trees growing in them already).  And hopefully, I'll be able to afford to pay someone to clear and seed certain areas.  I'm still trying to get a forester to come up and give some feedback too.

So . . . there ya go.   

[bull]

Well good to get you back, keep writing and checking in etc.  And we can all see what happens and give some words of encouragement as needed. Remember the only stupid question is the one you don't ask !!! The others may be for our entertainment...... Good luck w/ the house stay in touch
        BULL !!!

[SwampDonkey]

Glad your still with us, and the notification got to your end. Come visit more often and share in the wealth and knowledge on the forum.

I can remember clearing and burning just one acre of ground, an old orchard and I know that is a lot of work. You have to handle the brush over and over in your burn piles because the fire usually burns from the centre towards the edge. The best time to burn here is winter if we have a year without snow and it's frosty, nice warm bomb fire.  ;D

[bushhog]

RAW -

Good to hear from you again.  As they say misery loves company...  I'm still sawing, bush hogging, piling, burning, and whatever else needs to be done on my property in WNC too.  I do have a clear picture of what I want in the end and do what I can when I can and don't worry about the rest. 

Breaking things down into smaller projects will keep you from getting overwhelmed and burnt out too and also allows a more immediate sense of completion, albeit shortlived.   :  250 acres is alot of land. 

FYI - I saw a pretty good deal on a Kubota 6800 4 wheel tractor in the Asheville Iwanna adds