Chainsaw Fuel

[Woodbutcher56]

I'm new here and this question has probably been asked many times but here goes. I would like advice on fuel choices I want to make sure I remain in compliance with warranty requirements. Choice 1 Sunoco Ultra 93 10℅ E with Dolmar High Performance Full Synthetic oil.  Choice 2 90 Octane 0℅ E with Dolmar HP Synthetic oil or Choice 3 a mix of 4 gal. 90 Oct 0℅ E with 1 gal Aviation LL 100 Oct. ( To boost octane level) with Dolmar HP Synthetic oil. I chose  Dolmar oil because I run mainly Dolmar saws. I usually mix 3oz. Oil to a gallon of gas. Thanks in advance for your response!

[sawguy21]

You can run the avgas mix if you want but there is no need to. Either of the other choices are good, if the ethanol content is lower go with #1

[Gearbox]

choice 2 . 3 oz per gallon is oil rich but the misquitos will leave .

[limbwood]

choice 2 is what i would do if it were me.

[ladylake]

 Choice 2 here too, stay away from ethanol.  Steve

[OH logger]

I run 91 octane ethanol free and amsoil synthetic mix

[gspren]

   I also like the non ethanol because sometimes my 2 stroke sits a bit. 3 OZ per gallon should be about 42 to 1 which is also good.

[plantman]

Always run premium gas otherwise it might not burn hot enough to burn the oil properly. Also, I just talked to stihl and the tech told me to not run the mix rich because (believe it or not) he claims the gas cools the engine and a rich mixture could cause over heating. I never heard that one before but that's what he said. Also, I always take out the spark arrestor screens in the mufflers because they get clogged with oil.

[sawguy21]

That is an interesting theory about rich mixture but I'm not a Stihl engineer so what do I know. Don't get caught without that spark arrestor on public land.

[Ox]

Anything non ethanol.  Never run the ethanol in one if you can avoid it.  I've heard others saying no problems running ethanol.  They are using them very frequently.  If you leave one sit for the winter with ethanol in it, it (Tom) likely won't start the next time you need it. 
I expect to hear someone come on now and tell me that's wrong because it didn't happen to him.  :D

I wish I could have met Mr. Tom Cadenhead.  I never met the man but after reading about him and his stories I miss him but never met him.  That's never happened with anybody else in my whole life.  :-\

[Kbeitz]

I think he was wrong. Back when I raced 2 cycle motorcycles a
rich mixture is what you needed to keep things cool. but a lean
mixture is what would win the race. Unburned gas takes the heat
away.

[ZeroJunk]

May be confusing rich, as in the amount of fuel delivered, with the amount of oil in the fuel.
A gentleman did a test on another forum using heat sensing equipment and found that according to the saw he tested it was actually cooler at 50 to 1 than at 40 to 1 .

Running a saw lean is a good way to always keep new saws around.

[plantman]

May be confusing rich, as in the amount of fuel delivered, with the amount of oil in the fuel.
A gentleman did a test on another forum using heat sensing equipment and found that according to the saw he tested it was actually cooler at 50 to 1 than at 40 to 1 .

Running a saw lean is a good way to always keep new saws around.

Yes, that is exactly what the tech at Stihl told me. It seems counter intuitive that a mix lower in oil would run cooler . Actually a number of years ago I burned a chainsaw motor and thought that someone might have put regular gas in it but I was quite sure I had put mix in the saw . Perhaps that oil / gas mix had too much oil .

[20ozjolt]

I used to run anything threw my 2 strokes... now days I run closer to choice 2

Clear premium.... 93 octane I think....

[thecfarm]

I use the highest octane gas that I can get at my local gas station in all my small motors.

[ButchC]

I think you have a decent  handle on the real issues since you didn't ask which oil, x, y or Z is best , lol.
Alky, WAS a serious issue a few years ago, it turned Echo fuel lines to mush and most others rock hard. Newer equipment will resist it but you still can't leave it sit for months in unused engines and expect them to operate as intended.  If I had easy access to pure gasoline I would use it but instead use 10% alky  hi test a  gallon at a time. When it is old enough that I can't remember exactly when I mixed it I toss it and mix new. Here is what you should be worried about, these are all equally important.
A- That there is some synthetic 2 stroke oil in the fuel somewhere near the correct ratio.
B- that is is fresh, less than two weeks old
C-that the fuel is the correct octane
D Carburetors are set correctly
F  to dump fuel and run engine dry when it is going to sit a spell.

Waaaay down the list is
Which oil is best
Which ratio is best
Ethonal vs non

[petefrom bearswamp]

You are correct Ox.
Just a contrarian  anecdotal response.
I have posted this before.
My 1973 model super xl Homelite stayed at my Adirondack camp with ethanol gas in it for 15 or more years.
It started, usually in about 5 pulls every time.
I have retired it now tho in favor of my much lighter Husky 345.
I have used non ethanol and notice no difference in either starting or performance.
I only cut firewood now and buck logs at my mill, so my saws  sit idle for weeks at a time usually in the winter.
No problems starting.
Just lucky I guess.

[Ox]

pete - i do believe you are very, very lucky to have that kind of good luck with ethanol gasoline in small engines.  I've had nothing but huge problems with it in anything that runs with a carburetor, as did everybody else around here.  I was a mechanic at one of the local John Deere dealers and I saw many, many no run conditions come through when ethanol started being common around the area.  Almost every single time it was due to ethanol gas.  This is a very real problem with carbureted small engines, and likely even carbureted vehicles.  The latter I don't have first hand experience with.  The former I do.  Sometimes the only way to get the engine to run was to actually replace the carburetor with a new one.  The original carb was soaked, cleaned, blown out, etc. but just wouldn't run.  It had everybody stumped over and over.  I've seen intake valves stuck in the guides and bent over the pushrods.  Fuel lines hard as rocks or simply crumbling in your fingers.  Gel looking crap that looked like it came out of a baby's wet diaper.  White and green fuzzy corrosion halfway up in the bowls.  Never had that happen until ethanol fuel came around.  Ethanol is the evil brew of the devil.

Are you sure what you used was ethanol gas?  ;) ;D  I can't believe the good luck you've had with it. 

[Kbeitz]

After every winter is finished I need to open my carb on my mule
to remove that Gel looking crap before it will even start. I also never
had that problem until ethanol fuel came around

[Awesomesince72]

To much oil will lean out engine. Ive never burned up a saw at 50:1. 40:1 and 32:1 both work but I don't think it's necessary except maybe on a mill saw that runs wot for extended periods.
Most important thing is pick a ratio and tune carb and stick with that ratio.
As far as fuel goes I've tried 100ll and saw ran crappy. Burn rate to slow. I've ran ethanol and never had a problem with my 066 even if I left gas in for a couple years.
I prefer non ethanol 90 octane. Seems like best burn rate for stock saw and I like the way it smells.
Find a fuel and oil that you like. Tune saw with it and stick with it.

[Ox]

I heard a few, only a few  :D, stories of no problems with ethanol over long periods of time in small engines.  I'm starting to wonder if ethanol fuel varies enough from region to region where it's just like what I hear.  I've always thought that maybe it was supposed to be ethanol fuel but really wasn't.  Some of this stuff just doesn't make any sense at all.
I also wonder about different climates regarding ethanol.  All I know is I hate the stuff and pay extra for the high test non ethanol for my stuff and all my problems stopped immediately after switching. 
Just random rambling....

[Caloren]

Here in Central CA I have no choice, it's ethanol or nothing! Checked once to see if pure gas was available and was surprised to find a couple of stations that claimed to have it, but they were over 300 miles north of me, that wasn't going to happen! Don't know if my saws would run better with non ethanol or not, but I don't leave gas in them when I store them for a week or more. One gallon of gas will last me for almost a year in my lawn mower since we have a small lawn here at home, no trouble with the Briggs & Stratton engine on that. Couple of small generators we use in the mountains, they seem to run fine with gas left in them for months at a time.
Would I use non ethanol if it was available? I would certainly try it, just to see if it made a difference, and probably use it.
Just a few thoughts as it is interesting to read all the pro's and con's of people in states where real gas is available!  8)

[20ozjolt]

Try your local marina

Many up here are a good place to find clear gas

[petefrom bearswamp]

I will probably switch to non ethanol even tho no probs so far.
It is getting much easier to get here in central NY state now.

[clearcut]

There is an ethanol free alternative fuel available in CA, sold at Home Depot and such. I believe you can get it on Amazon also. TruFuel is one brand. It comes in pre-mixed or 4- cycle. Its pricey at about $20 per gallon. It claims to be very shelf stable.

I plan on trying it in my very old lawnmower that hates ethanol. I tired of cleaning the carburetor every week, just to cut the grass.

My newer string trimmer and leaf blower seem to do fine with E-10.

[Ox]

There's a product called ethanol shield or something like that my brother uses and now swears by.  Gets it at Walmart. He's around York, PA with a landscaping/lawn care business with many small engines that gave him problems every year from ethanol and storage over the winter.  After talking to other guys down there in the same business he started using this stuff and all his problems are over.  Says things start up in the spring like they used to with the old good gas.

Just sharing so maybe somebody can save some time and money by going this route...

[Awesomesince72]

Ox you could be on to something. Here in the Nw Washington I live only 10 miles from to large refineries. They bring shale oil from ND by rail and the trains are miles long. Also by tanker from Alaska. Non ethanol fuel is readily available at most places and is the same price as ethanol fuel.  The pump says it may contain up to 10% ethanol but I'd be willing to bet it doesn't at a lot of places. Most gas station owners I know are looking for the least expensive fuel from distributors because the mark up is so low. I would think bringing ethanol in from the Midwest and mixing here would cost more than refining crude. I don't know all the rules involved with ethanol mixing requirements but I do know that refineries are all about making money so it makes since that if it does cost more and they don't get subsidized for using it that they wouldn't. I'll ask my friend about it. He is the supervisor at the refinery

[plantman]

There's a product called ethanol shield or something like that my brother uses and now swears by.  Gets it at Walmart. He's around York, PA with a landscaping/lawn care business with many small engines that gave him problems every year from ethanol and storage over the winter.  After talking to other guys down there in the same business he started using this stuff and all his problems are over.  Says things start up in the spring like they used to with the old good gas.

Just sharing so maybe somebody can save some time and money by going this route...

The company that make Ethanol Shield also makes a product called Mechanic in a Bottle which I have had good success with. However, the problem with ethanol is that it attracts water and water causes corrosion. In addition, the ethanol will dry and disintegrate rubber such as fuel lines, diaphragms , O-rings, gaskets, etc . The first thing to do is replace rubber or plastic fuel lines and filters once a year. You can try these products mentioned but if you have a motor that has been sitting a long time it might be better to just bite the bullet and take the carb apart and clean it with carburetor cleaner or a ultra sonic cleaner. Fortunately there are many videos on youtube that help explain procedures for just about anything you own.

[gspren]

There's a product called ethanol shield or something like that my brother uses and now swears by.  Gets it at Walmart. He's around York, PA with a landscaping/lawn care business

Non-Ethanol is available in York at Al's Pure Gas on Rt 30, but it does cost more.

[Ox]

Maybe he's getting good gas there, then.  Haven't talked to him about this for several years.

[E fan]

I have two stihl saws, a stihl leave blower and weed eater that I strickly use, and have since I got each of them, the Husqvarna 50:1 they sell at our local lowes home improvement center here in town and haven't had any issues with any of them but I'm thinking of going with the VP fuels 50:1 that I can get from the local TSC store much cheaper by the gallon than the quart 

[ehp]

OK guys , built a ton of 2 stroke motors from gas to nitro methane and spent years on dynos , if you run a motor on 50-1 then switch to 20-1 and did not change the jetting on the engine the motor will run leaner on the 20-1 , reason is you now have more oil in lets say a pint of mixed gas so this means you have less gas in that pint so when your running that motor it has to run leaner because your not burning the same amount of gas as you would running the 50-1 . Now as far as what produces more power , that I have spent a lot of time on and without any question the richer the oil ratio is the more power the motor produced BUT you have to jet the motor properly to run the richer oil ratio .On the dyno I normally made 8% to 8.5% or horsepower at 16-1 over 50-1. Now not all oil will do this as some oils just will not mix at that heavy of a ratio . Where I live the autotune or Mtronic saws run a lot better on 10% ethanol high test gas compared to non ethanol gas , reason is if you jet a motor to run non ethanol gas then switch to even 10% ethanol the ethanol gas mix will be leaner as it takes lets says a average on 1 1/2 times of ethanol to gas so even just a 10% mixture of ethanol leans the gas down and sense your running a autotune or Mtronic it really cannot tell whats in it for gas . Here all autotune and Mtronic run to rich so the leaner type fuel helps them run better

[Al_Smith]

Well with due respect I'm not certain I agree with all that .However after hosting discussions of oil and fuel mixtures for so long I believe it's time for me to take a break from the discussion .

[Awesomesince72]

Good write up Ed. I was wondering what oil you were using in your test. Full synthetic or a mineral oil? I've always preferred the mineral oils and thought there was a power advantage when using them.

[ehp]

if you go to where REAL stocksaw races are held and not just a one time thing but like a lot of weekends in the winter time like we have up north you will find 99% of the guys are running Shell XTC-50 oil at 20-1 with high test pump gas , these classes are a big thing to win , open mod saws mean nothing to these guys and you can have over 50 saws per class in the stocksaw events and you are checked for porting and cc of motor . the xtc-50 oil is really not a great oil at 50-1 , seen lots of saws stick the rings from getting to hot but at 20-1 its a great oil and sure does make abit more power

[DaveP]

     I use non ethanol gas and Stihl oil but, I mix it 40-1.  Recently I had two saws that gave me trouble.  Both had jelly like slime in the carburetors.  From now on when I fill a 5 gallon can I am going to put a gallon or so in my truck first.  Never know  what is in that hose from the last person to use it.  Also, who knows what is really in that tank.

[ehp]

right now Im running 94 octane high test from Petro Canada and klotz techniplate oil at 40-1 , have ran it at 20-1 and it worked good. I find this fuel work real good in the hot summer time when its way about 90F , saws run cooler on this fuel than the other fuel I was running

[Kbeitz]

map of ethanol free gas stations

http://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html

[thecfarm]

Never really thought what was in the hose before me. I just might put a couple gallons of high grade into the truck and than fill up the gas can. No seperate hoses at the gas station I go to.

[trapper]

Kwik Trip stations by me have 3 hoses 1 for each grade.  The pure gas map missed at least 4 stations by me that have ethanol free gas.  I also run a gallon in the truck before getting chainsaw gas.  Then fill the truck with regular to get all the high priced gas i payed for when at the stations with one hose.