new 088 bought the farm??

Shamus · August 22, 2003, 11:13:40 PM

   Built the Procut sawmill, put on a Stihl 038 to test out the mill, worked great but the saw was underpowered of course. Sucked it up and bought a brand new 088. Worked great, cut about 300 board feet, when suddenly, without foreshadowing, the saw started to rattle, and refused to cut anymore. Turned it off and stopped cutting. I'll take it back to the shop monday.
   What the bleep happened? Is it clutch related? I did all the good stuff: running at reduced throttle with a rich mix to break it in, used high octane gas, ran at 7/8 throttle, cleaned air filter every fill-up, no excessive force to make the cuts (nice cuts too).
   Watcha got people? Fill me in, I'm stumped, not about to take apart a new saw under warranty, but darn curious whazza...?

KiwiCharlie · August 22, 2003, 11:30:47 PM

G'day Shamus,
Need more info! What oil/fuel mix were you using? Could be clutch, but I would think the 088 would handle that job OK.
Did the saw stop dead, or did you switch off?
What length bar and length of cuts?
Hope we can help. Will be interested to hear what your shop says......
Cheers
Charlie.

Kevin · August 23, 2003, 05:02:05 AM

Is it the piston or the drive ?

Shamus · August 23, 2003, 10:03:07 AM

I was using a 40:1 mix with good 2 cycle oil. The bar is a little long at 36", with a 3/8" chain, square full house, starting with 15 degree teeth angle. A smaller bar would not have filled the inner dimension of the saw carriage, and would limit the size of log I could process. I have been cutting soft maple logs, 10 footers averaging about 20" diameter. I'm not sure wether it is the pistom or the drive. I was about 4 feet into a cut, when a rattling sound started, the rpms seemed to increase slightly (was I imagining it?), and the chain was still spinning, but would not cut. I shut it down after about 5 seconds. After a quick external inspection for wobbly bits, I started her up with one pull. Still rattled in an unsavory manner. That was enough for me, didn't want to make it any worse. Woof.

Below is a picture of the mill just geting set up for a test drive, she's sporting a trusty old Stihl 038. First log you see there is a western hemlock, fell across the road the day before I set up the mill. A log delivered by the hand of god! Note the Komatsu lurking in the shadows, waiting to do my bidding...

Kevin · August 23, 2003, 04:17:33 PM

What happens when you try and turn the chain by hand with the saw turned off?

Shamus · August 23, 2003, 05:55:54 PM

The chain turns freely, the sprocket is not seized.

Kevin · August 23, 2003, 06:31:38 PM

Does the noise occur when you hit the throttle or when the saw is just idling?

Shamus · August 23, 2003, 07:58:09 PM

Death-rattle occurs when idling, and also when throttled.

Kevin · August 23, 2003, 08:19:03 PM

Are the clutch shoes and springs still intact?

Shamus · August 23, 2003, 08:56:34 PM

Good lord Kevin, that would require effort on my part. ;D
Just kidding, good idea, I will check tomorrow morning. And thanks for your help, you do seem to be actually using your noodle, mine is still in the box.

Kevin · August 24, 2003, 07:24:04 AM

It sounds like something has let go inside but the clutch is easy to check without getting too involved.
You should clean it up before taking it into the repair shop anyway so this will give you a chance to give it a quick visual on the outside.

Dennis · August 25, 2003, 09:22:45 AM

Sounds to me like the clutch let go, or the crank broke just behind the clutch....the 088 should be up to the task with no problems...where are you in BC Shamus??

Kevin · August 25, 2003, 03:25:43 PM

Dennis, what took you so long? :D

Bowen, BC

Dennis · August 25, 2003, 03:52:37 PM

Kevin, well, there have been a multitude of problems over here at my place...fire issues, power issues, computer issues, illnesses...etc...the list goes on....but we are back at about 90% of everything working properly...lol...

Are you in Bowen or is Shamus?

Kevin · August 25, 2003, 04:05:40 PM

Shamus according to his map.

Shamus · August 26, 2003, 07:45:29 PM

Hio Dennis and Kevin. Woof. :-/ Tough couple of days over on Bowen Island (just off Horseshoe Bay). If you care to, I have another posting on the General Board. Fisheries, Enviro Consultants, municipal council, meetings, damage control. But it is being taken care of now. Phew. It is an exhausting and stressful process.
   Now, how about that Stihl 088? Well I took it in on Monday, and apparently the spark plug was defective and led to damage to the top of the piston. Not quite sure what that means, but I will find out the full skinny tomorrow when I pick it up. Warranty covered, thank god. :D :D

   I was worried that I had overtightened the chain (occured to me Monday morning), because it was the last change I had made before the saw went wonky. But it is worth discussing also. When the chain warms up, it gets pretty loose on that 36" bar. And I was having some trouble with rippled cuts, although I think that has more to do with dropping the rakers too low. Sure cuts faster though. As it is I have to hold the saw back, and make a slower cutting pass. A couple more sharpenings of the teeth should bring it back to normal I hope. There must be a good middle ground somewhere between rippled boards and faster rate of cut.
   Alan of Procut Sawmills suggest going to a zero degree tooth profile, but that seems extreme, although I am working my way down to 10 from 15 degrees. Anyone care to comment?

Kevin · August 26, 2003, 09:09:48 PM

Depending on the wood, you should get a good surface at 10o.
0o should be a little smoother but I find 10o adequate for softwood.

Shamus · August 26, 2003, 10:23:17 PM

So Kevin, does that mean that you also have a chainsaw mill, or had one in the past? I am primarily going to be cutting soft maple (bigleaf) and red alder, at least initially.

KiwiCharlie · August 27, 2003, 12:23:09 AM

G'day Shamus,
Ive got my father in Chemainus - not too far from you! Went through Horseshoe on the way to Whistler in '94!
Now - the 0 deg chain would be like the Granberg grind, shown at http://www.granberg.com/ripchain.html

I tried it at the start, but ended up going with the stock Oregon 27RA chain - a great chain out of the box.
You can choose fast cut and rough finish, or slow cut and smoother finish. I would rather get the cut done fast, and smooth out the finish later! But Im cutting slabs, not dimension timber.
I can email you a jpg of the Oregon chart of the RA chain if youre interested.
Glad to hear your saw was warranty covered too!
Cheers
Charlie.

Kevin · August 27, 2003, 05:49:19 AM

Shamus, there are a few us on here that have chainsaw mills.
That's what led me to buying my LT-15.
If you go to my web site you will see some chainsaw milling pictures under the topic ... My Milling Pictures.

Oregon_Rob · August 27, 2003, 08:44:14 AM

Shamus,
Are you using an auxiliary oiler for your ripping? Your chain stretch comment made me wonder if the chain is getting too hot. Everything I have read suggests using the extra oiler on a bar that long. I do some milling from time to time, but so far everything has been done with a 24" bar.
I was given a nice cedar log that I hope to attack in the coming week. Any tips for ripping cedar? Seems like a nice soft wood.

Shamus · August 27, 2003, 09:11:34 AM

Kiwi, I hate Chemainus, that was what the kids used to call me at school!?!#@!! lol

Kevin, does that mean that you got so fed up with your chainsaw mill that you had to upgrade? ;D

Oregon Rob, I have been thinking about the auxilliary oiler, but i just laid out $1500 clams for the saw and extras, I got to get paid before I consider new gizmos. But I would think that a longer chain would be cooler than a short chain, no? More teeth sharing the work, longer time between contacting the wood for each tooth, more time to cool off out of the log. I am sure that the saw has to work a little harder though.

I am amazed that I have to clean the air filter after every tank of gas, the saw acts like a Hoover! Has anyone come up with a way to minimize the sawdust clogging their filter? Like an extended 'fender' to direct the dust away from the saw (and operator). Also considering auxilliary gas and chain oil tanks mounted on saw carriage to reduce refuelling. I am just worried that the saw might get stressed/overheated if I am not taking as many breaks to refuel.

Tag, y'all are it...

Oregon_Rob · August 27, 2003, 09:34:58 AM

I think you will find that a longer chain needs much more oil. Trust me, I know how the deal with having to get paid first goes, but you are taking life off of your bar and going to slow yourself down by not having enough oil. The unit that Granberg makes is under $40 USD. It would not be hard to rig up your own. Take a look at their unit, it's just a jug of oil and a plastic tube that connects to a hole drilled in your bar. I think you could go to an auto parts store and come up with your own set up for under $20 without much problem.
Let's see what others think???

Shamus · August 27, 2003, 10:03:51 AM

Sounds good O_R, I'm sold. Alan at Pro-cut thought they were overkill, but at that price, ya canna go wrong. It appeals to the thrifty haggis-eating-kilt-wearin' Scotsman in me. ;)

Would this make greasing the roller tip redundant?

Kevin · August 27, 2003, 05:44:58 PM

I still use the chainsaw mill when the trees are too big to move or too far off the beaten path.
It's a hoot to walk out of dense bush way back in the boonies and have someone drive by and see you carrying fresh milled boards.
Some even turn around and drive back slow but they never stop. :D

A bar over 24" should have the additional oiler.