log size?

[br389]

I have a quick question I'am just getting ready to start my first logging job and I'am going to be pulling the hole tree out but what's the best size to cut them for the mill? I know 16' is a veneer log so do I cut them all that size?

[thenorthman]

call the mills, they usually have a preferred length, peeler logs are high quality usually... what ever you do do not buck them until you find out where they are going how much snipe they want and what lengths they accept, could go from making money to wasting firewood in a hurry

[thecfarm]

Yes,contact the mill first. The mill I use to sell to liked 16 footors and only wanted a few 8 footors in a load.Remember too you can cut 4 feet off a 16 footor and it will be worth more at 12 than 16. Meaning a bad place or a sweep. There is a lot to bucking logs and making-losing money.

[beenthere]

Guess I've not heard that 16' is the length for a veneer log (unless a sawmill is buying veneer logs for lumber needs).
Veneer is produced usually by chucking the log in a lathe of different sorts. 10' veneer is extra long, and normal veneer is 8' (i.e. for doors, tables, etc.).

However, a 16' length will give the veneer buyer a chance to adjust where they'd remove an 8 or 10 ft length for maximizing the veneer log value depending on defects (characters) in the log.

[Ianab]

Like the guys say, the correct answer is "The length the mill wants". Coupled of course with what the logs are actually going to produce.  The mill should be able to provide a sheet outlining what they pay for various sizes, grades and length of log.

Then you have to look at the tree, and decide what will maximise your return for that particular log. Leaving a bent log at 16ft is probably a bad idea as it will drop in grade, possibly to being a worthless reject, where it might make 2 good 8ft logs. Cutting a couple of feet off a log with rotten heart may increase the grade of the log, so even though the bd/ft are less, the value is more. If they are just buying on bd/ft, then 2 x 8ft logs may scale higher than a single 16ft log because of the taper? Or do they pay a premium for good 16ft logs? Maybe they will pay a premium for even longer lengths for sawing our beams etc?

Then, do different mills pay different amounts for different type of logs? This is another way to maximise your profit, by sending the logs to the places where they fetch the best price.

Yes there is an art to it. Knowing what your buyer wants is the first step. Bucking the logs properly can make a HUGE difference to their value, but what is "right" depends on what the buyer(s) wants.

Ian

Edit:  This is the landing at a small local logging job. They are dragging the trees out full length, then bucking and sorting them into different stacks by length and grade of log. You can see the rubbish bits that have been cut off logs in front of the excavator. Some logs waiting to be bucked, and the different stacks waiting tobe picked up by the trucks.

[mad murdock]

If you are milling for yourself, you will want to do as the mills do and leave a little extra length for "trim", so when you go to use an 8' stud, yoiu will have 8' after triming the ends square.  Any mill I have sold wood to has a specific specification sheet/Price matrix that they supply with any potential purchase order.  If you provide logs outside those specs,  they will only scale a log to the nearest merchantable length, i.e. if you cut a log 40' 1" and expect it to scale as a 40 footer, you will be mistaken, as the mill will scale it as a 38 foot log, since it doesn't have the required 12-14" of trim beyond the 40' measurement.  That is just the way it is. 

[mills]

When I first started cutting timber comercially there was an old log buyer that came out to the landing. Anytime I would asked him how he wanted a log bucked he always laughed and said, "Son cut for grade." Then he would point out stuff that I had never noticed. I learned a lot from that old man. Bunch of common sense in what everyone above is saying. See what the mill wants, but when I'm in good timber, the first consideration is grade.

[treefarmer87]

check the mills specs. my 2 log mills I haul too allow down to 9''.

[shortlogger]

It requires a few things,knowing what the mill needs ,length ,diameter at both ends how much crook can be in a log and you also want options of other mills that might pay more for certain cuts or will take lower grade wood helping you eliminate waste after you know your options the next thing you will need to do is get in there and start cutting and experience will help you refine your technique and start developing a eye for what works best . If you have the knack for it it will come together pretty quick . Another good thing is go to the mill and watch them grade your wood and see what they like or don't like about the load that you send so you will know what not to do next time .

[br389]

Thanks for the help guy's it sounds like I have some calling around to do

[PAFaller]

Id suggest you go to a few mills and walk around with a scaler for a few days before you start cutting timber. If you are cutting on shares or working on contract for a landowner you owe it to them to make good logs and get top dollar for the timber. No matter how good you are in the woods when you are cutting hardwood you make or lose money in the landing. For instance, in your first post you mentioned 16 ft being veneer, thats no so here in PA. Very few mills take 16 foot as veneer, in fact most buyers want 12ft and shorter, they handle easier for guys that load containers. Often times I buck 2 stick veneer, meaning its 17, 18,19,20, 21,22 foot. Then the buyer can cut out 2 9ft logs or a 12ft and 9 ft etc. This is assuming you are even cutting veneer, and truthfully the markets are pretty picky right now. But, making long veneer usually helps get more money, as the veneer buyer makes the bucking decisions when they come out and scale your wood up.
In sawlogs you need to know how the grader grades and what they allow for defects and defect placement. For instance, a 12 foot log with a knot on one face in the last 8inches would still be scaled as a 4 side clear log where I sell my logs. The reason for this is that the 11 feet of good wood before that knot on one face will still make plenty of FAS lumber, so they let it slide. But if I cut an 8 foot log first, then put that defect in the middle of the next log, its going to scale 3 side clear and you lost money. Once you get in to the lowgrade sticks towards the top it doesnt matter as much, but the first few logs you cut are where 85% of the value in a good hardwood stick is. If you are cutting softwood its a lot easier, you cut the lengths the mill wants and cut to be straight and not taper to much over the length of the log. Like I said, its not as easy as run the tape out and start whacking logs off at random intervals, guys that make money at it take there time and do it right. You get in to $1.00 a board foot hard maple and cherry and you had best know where to be bucking the logs out at.

[xalexjx]

here in upstate ny my buyer wants 6"+ on every log for trim. So 16'5" you get paid for a 12'er. So id check with your wood buyer before cutting..

[Ron Scott]

Yes, definitely check with your buyer first to see what they want. Keep in tune with them as they may even change their specs with market changes during your operation.

[Ed_K]

For anyone wanting to practise without cutting,Mich tech has a program called HW buck.It's a program to teach bucking logs for optimum $$$.
It'll get your minds eye on seeing where to buck out bad spots.Sorry I don't know how to import the site to here.

[mroldstyle]

http://forest.mtu.edu/research/hwbuck/hwbuck/index.htm

heres a link to michigan tech site.

[coxy]

that web site looks pretty cool going to down load today thanks alot guys for the site the forestry fourm is the best 8) 8) 8)