Good road-building on woodlots

[livemusic]

Sorry I have so many questions! Now, I am curious about building roads. I have been involved with hiring the building of a lot of roads for oilwell drilling. I am talking about a 'poor boy' road. A road built as cheaply as possible. These were for shallow wells and unless it was mandatory, no topping with rock. If it got sloppy, we'd use a dozer to pull trucks in and out. That got interesting a few times. Nowadays, such a well's total cost would be $250,000. The dirtwork usually cost far less than 10% of that. As opposed to a deep well these days might spend $250,000 on dirtwork alone. (Road and drilling pad.) Total well costs are several million dollars. Sometimes, even 15 to 20 million total well costs! But those roads for those wells will support a military operation. They are built pretty wide and prettied up real good and LOTS of high dollar rock that 'sets up' well long-term. VERY heavy equipment (and lots of it) travels those access roads for a few months.

As for building a road for your property, does anyone have an opinion about what you have found to be a necessary width? The wider a road is, the more sun and airflow. But, on a woodlot, we are hesitant to remove trees. For somebody like me, the narrower the road, the better. Has anyone found a certain topping material to be superior?

I saw a guy build a road recently and as far as aesthetics (to my eye), it turned out good because he used a dark topping material. I think he called it "reclaim." It was ground up asphalt. I guess it came from an old road. This man didn't do much grading. He just laid down a bed of gravel and then topped it with the reclaim and spread it with a boxblade. Poor boy way. We'll see how it holds up. When he put in a culvert from the highway onto his property, the culvert was covered with red clay / iron ore dirt. Mostly red clay, it's hard to get good iron ore around here any more. He topped it with gravel and reclaim. He let that set up for months before traveling on it. I wonder if that is necessary. I guess it allows it to 'settle.'

Access road building is a really broad subject! Kind of tough to discuss, as there are so many variables. Any tips/opinions are appreciated.

I would think that the skill of the dozer operator matters alot... the guy cutting/shaping the road bed. I bet some guys are just really superior with their road building skills. Might be best to ask a lot of people who is good at it.

[brianJ]

Wait til very dry and drive where you want.      Freezing works for us and with more predictable times.

[DelawhereJoe]

Around here people use the asphalt millings or ground (reclaimed) concrete. They just pile it thicker, with the asphalt millings spread them when you first get them or in the hot summer they will try to rebond making large chunks.

[newoodguy78]

I've helped put in a couple "poor boy roads" the ones that held up the best we used fabric on top of the existing ground then covered with gravel. The fabric is similar to silt fence material only wider. Depending on how wet the existing ground is and what was going to travel it dictated how much gravel we spread. The fabric isn't cheap but it's amazing how effective it is and how much less gravel is required.

Somewhere on here barbender has some pictures of a road he built and I'm pretty sure he used the fabric. I can't for the life of me remember what thread it's in though 

[TKehl]

Wait til very dry and drive where you want.      Freezing works for us and with more predictable times.

I assume you are talking woods roads not a driveway.

Heavy equipment doesn't move on our place if the ground is wet enough to leave ruts.  We'll use a 4 wheeler or something else to do prep work, then equipment when we can. 

If I find I'm leaving ruts from use, and it's a regularly used area, we pour crusher run, tailgate spread and that takes care of most issues.  Top as needed.

[SwampDonkey]

Excavator roads here are the better road, with ditches.  Only time I have not been able to get to a thinning block on an excavator road was due to beavers, trees or washed out. Lots of woodlot roads I have not bee able to drive on because it's a trench dug my a dozer with berms pushed up the sides, middle of road is the ditch. :D Woodlot roads built by dozer in these parts are just ditches full of water unless your going over a ridge of shale.  ;D

[thecfarm]

Ground fabric is the only way to go. But are these roads going to be used for just a few months by you or a year or two? I had some gravel hauled in many years ago,no ground fabric,did not know about it than. That gravel is long gone now. I had a driveway put in and ground fabric was used. I had logging trucks across it 3 times so far. Gravel is still there. Really could not tell he used it. But it's up in the air too. Water runs down beside it,not on top it. Has a crown to the road too.
I use to work at a place that made interior trunk mats. I use to get rolls of material,made from plastic,same as the fabric. I used some of that on my woods road,worked great. As well as the fabric.

[woodmaker]

 I agree with swampdonkey,the only machine necessary to build a log road is an excavator(and a truck if to haul gravel if it will see year round use).
  I have built many miles of logging road over the years, both for foresters and landowners and around here at least,ditches are mandatory to get the water away from the traveled way,and a crown to get the water to the ditch.
   If they are going to be winter roads,that is typically all we do to them,if year round,then we use gravel ; with fabric in the wetter/softer spots

[starmac]

There is no way to answer this, without knowing what you have for a base and how permanent you want it. It is generally better to remove any topsoil on most types of soil, then start building your base.

[livemusic]

I agree with swampdonkey,the only machine necessary to build a log road is an excavator(and a truck if to haul gravel if it will see year round use).
  I have built many miles of logging road over the years, both for foresters and landowners and around here at least,ditches are mandatory to get the water away from the traveled way,and a crown to get the water to the ditch.
   If they are going to be winter roads,that is typically all we do to them,if year round,then we use gravel ; with fabric in the wetter/softer spots

What do you mean all you need is an escavator? Is that a backhoe/trackhoe? How would you build a road with that? That just digs/moves dirt, right? Or do you mean they would have a blade on the front to shape/push dirt? Something else you said is the way roads are built here when the operator knows how to do it... "ditches are mandatory to get the water away from the traveled way,and a crown to get the water to the ditch." But how do you do that with an escavator? Here, pretty much all you need is a dozer and a good operator. You use the dozer to take out any trees in the way and push/stack them aside. Then you cut the road, making ditches and a crown. You need a good eye for it... visualizing water flow. Many roads around here, if you are doing it the poor boy way, you build the road but don't spend money on topping it except for a short stretch from the highway into the property. Too costly. The bulk of it is just dirt, and it can be best not to travel on it if it's wet.

To anyone who asked, I was talking about a permanent road. Now, here, if you are smart, and if your road gets wet in the winter, you can choose not to drive on it with anything heavy when it it's wet.

If I had my druthers and if the budget allowed, a full weather road would be best, but I tell ya, here, it can get awful wet, and such a road can be really expensive! The topping material sets up real hard and it's costly.

We have two types of soils here. Sandy/loamy and then red clay / iron ore. The tract I had in mind is sandy/loamy. It's real soft.

As I said, lots of variables, but the comments have been interesting. I have wondered if people use fabric. Sure makes sense. I'd like to ask people around here if anyone uses fabric.

[SwampDonkey]

On most roads where I thin (Mill ground and Public land) the material is granite rocks and course sand, all in a big glacial mix. On woodlots it is typically garden like dirt on top for 12-30 inches. Then harder ground with clay mixed with gravel or shale or some limestone type substrate. On a back ridge you can get away with a dozer road as the hills roll, the dips will usually be wet though unless ditched well or culvert. I find a dozer is good at pushing and levelling, not building roads. They just push up piles of dirt and you have a trench in the woods just waiting to catch the water. An excavator can build pretty much all the road and any debris can be buried for fill. No wood and brush or piles of dirt pushed up making a mess off the side of the roads. All kinds of fellas building road on youtube, not a dozer in sight.  ;D

[Ken]

As Swampdonkey indicated most roads around here are built with an excavator and maybe a dozer to help with some things.   Generally the excavator or larger dozer will push/pile all the stumps and brush on one side of the cleared right of way.  The excavator will then dig a trench alongside the grubbings pile using the dug up material as the road bed.  The grubbings are then pulled into the trench and buried.   When culverts are properly installed these types of roads will last for decades.  Sometimes material may have to be trucked in from a different spot on the property to cross a wet area.

[Ed_K]

Excavator with digging and finish bucket's hooked on with a twist o wrist  for angle grading and hooking buckets on. And a thumb either manual or hydraulic on the stick is all you need. Digging bucket for stumps,ditch's and finding good road material. Finish bucket for grading road bed clean up. Thumb for moving stumps, placing rock for culvert walls. This is why you see 5-6 excavators and 1 dozer along side highway projects.
I used to tell people I could do anything with a dozer 😁. Now you couldn't get me in one. Why beat yourself to death when you can sit in an apartment type setting in comfort 😉.

[Gearbox]

On company roads and county . We have two kinds of roads . 1 is a main line road that has at least 12 foot top with 8 to 12 feet wide graveled top . These are permanent roads that get some grading and brush mowing . 2 you have spur roads that just go into sales . In the winter these can be a few blocks to many miles . these get zero maint. except for snow plowing the winter of the cut . Private roads are built for the land owner and spelled out in the contract and reflect the amount paid for the timber .

[IndyIan]

Excavator with digging and finish bucket's hooked on with a twist o wrist  for angle grading and hooking buckets on. And a thumb either manual or hydraulic on the stick is all you need. Digging bucket for stumps,ditch's and finding good road material. Finish bucket for grading road bed clean up. Thumb for moving stumps, placing rock for culvert walls. This is why you see 5-6 excavators and 1 dozer along side highway projects.
I used to tell people I could do anything with a dozer 😁. Now you couldn't get me in one. Why beat yourself to death when you can sit in an apartment type setting in comfort 😉.

That's the setup the fellow that dug our pond had, he did the whole job including clearing and leveling an acre with the excavator.  We didn't need it parking lot smooth but it was pretty close anyways.   

[Ed_K]

 Happy Birthday, hope you had a great day  8) .

[mike_belben]

Northerners dont really grasp what its like to operate on unfrozen, completely soaked bottomless clay thru winter. 

Best road youll get on clay is to cut it during summer when things are dry. 
remove the topsoil for sale or better use elsewhere in my opinion, cut your crown into the clay, roll out the geotextile fabric ( 15x300 roll is about $450) then immediately drop 6" of 3-5 rock ontop. Thats about $175+delivery per triaxle here and will go about 60-80 linear feet per load depending how thin and wide you go.
  With fabric you can probably stop there for a basic haul road.   Or cap with your choice.. 3/4 stone, millings, 3minus, etc. Crusher run is the cheapest cap in my region.  The fines will help lock the stone together. 

Without fabric youre just gonna keep pushing more and more rock into the clay.  There are pools of water trapped underneath it and those spots are just bottomless.  If fabric is absolutely out.. I think i would lay down 6-12" rock in the flatter spots thatll pool water.  The steeper areas drain faster and can be skimped on with better results *if* you arent criss crossing and making 3 point turns on it all day in the rain.  Spots where the trucks turn around are always gonna be flatter and getting chewed up from the wheels pivoting.  In the long run fabric is cheaper.