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Tyloses

Started by Tom, May 27, 2001, 07:30:23 PM

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Tom

This isn't exactly a Forestry question.  I'd like to hear what anybody has to say.

I have, over the years run into the term Tyloses which plug vertical pores in the xylem causing the wood to be water tight and useful for tight cooperage.  White oak has tyloses.  Red oak doesn't have tyloses, its pores are 'open'.

I have repeated the term to describe the differences in White and Red oak to customers and to describe dry and tight cooperage without ever knowing exactly what a tyloses is.

I have looked in books, talked to foresters, asked biology teachers, etc. and still don't know.  Some of them know of the term the same as I do but they don't know what it is.

What is it?  Is it a part of the tree or is it a mineral plug?  Is it a valve and if not how does liquid pass up the tree?  

I've heard that liquid also passes down the tree, if this is true, how would a valve work. (My education always taught me that it only went up.)

What is their purpose in nature?

Do they exist in parts of the tree other than the trunk and limbs?

Do all trees have them in some fashion or is it found only in deciduous trees.

How about Monocots?  Do Palms have structures like these?  Perhaps monocots are a totally different thing since, as I remember, they lack rings and, so I suppose, cambium.

 :-/


Tom

Yeah, that helps some.

According to that, tyloses are part of the development of heartwood.  That sounds as if the sapwood doesn't have tyloses or at least isn't plugged.  Now, I've been told that staves are rivved from the sapwood.  If that's the case, then the question arises.....are the vessels plugged?

On the other hand, if heartwood is used for staves, is the cooper fighting the normal tendencey for heartwood to be stiff and brittle?

I'm getting the picture of tyloses now but want to continue the conversation to learn about the results of their existance.  Got any ideas?

Thanks Kevin, you know what? My online dictionary doesn't even have the word 'tyloses' in it.
------------

In my search for education I have run up on two sites that describe Oak Wilt.  It seems to be a hot topic up there around the lakes so I'll leave them here in case anyone may be interested.

http://www.kundeco.com/oakwilt.htm

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/naturalresources/DD3174.html

timberbeast

Tom,  tyloses isn't even in my mental,  dental or hygene dictionary,  but may explain the use of white oak for barrels.  To my knowledge,  simple as it may be,  coopering is a specialty craft done with specialized and handmade planes.  I believe they then filled the barrels with water to swell the pores,  as in many old wooden boats,  to seal the joints.  That is the extent of my meager knowledge.  I'll read the above links as time permits......interesting stuff!
Where the heck is my axe???

Tom

I had forgotten about soaking boats.  We used to use cypress boats and would sink them when we weren't using them.  Those sites said that tyloses are mostly a hardwood thing but I'm wondering if cypress heart has them.  Cypress heart doesn't give up it's water readily at all.

Ron Wenrich

Here's some info from my Wood Science book.  It is 35 years old, but after looking at the above links, it doesn't look like much more has been found out.

Tylosis is an outgrowth from adjacent parenchyma cells through a pit cavity in the vessel wall, formaing a saclike structure.  Further growth may cause the tyloses to subdivide, filling the vessel cavity completely or increase in cell wall thickness forming sclerosed tyloses, resembling stone cells.

In woods where tyloses and gums are normally present, they usually develop at the time when sapwood is transformed into heartwood.  

The gum would be an inclusion in the vessel as opposed to tyloses.

Species with tyloses include most types of oak, including black oak.  Black locust develops tyloses as well as beech.  Gum occlusions include honyelocust mahogany and ebony.  

They used to have a cooperage plant in Taneytown, MD.  It went out of business about 15 years ago.  I went through the plant.  All material was quater sawn.  Any material that came out other than quarter sawn was chipped.  

Towards the end, they tried to recover their waste, and discovered they had quite a bit of good dimension stock and some really nice flooring.   By that time, it was too late for the business.

The Japanese bought the plant, made about 10,000 barrels for making scotch in Japan, then shut it down.  

At one time, I worked for a company that sent 10/4 red oak to Spain to be used in wine vats.  The sediment from the wine sealed the red oak from leaking.  This was at a time when red oak was a realtively cheap wood.


Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Tom

Thanks Ron,

We got some pretty neat stuff out of this.  Your 35 year old book was right in line with the sites that Kevin provided.  It is hard to picture the biology from words until you see a good picture or read a LOT of words.  I'm beginning to see kind of what the experts are trying to describe.  Ron your quote about gum occlusions confuses me unless it means that the gum/sap plugs the vessel.

The most interesting part about Ron's was the description of the barrel plant.  That would really be interesting in detail.

I find the term Japanese Scotch rather humorous.

That is the first time I have ever heard of red oak being used for wet cooperage. Learn something every day.

I'd really like to hear about your trip to the barrel factory in detail one day Ron.

Don P

There is a discussion of tyloses in a wood science book at home, maybe one of you has it at hand, U of Iowa press. Or is that the same book Ron?
I've heard a good demonstration is to take small sections of red and white oak and blow thru them into water. Never have gotten around to trying it. Chestnut oak was bypassed for tight cooperage as it has no tyloses.Slack cooperage: nail kegs, flour barrels and the like.
The Victory garden guy wrote an interesting book some time back. One of his assertions was that Morels turn on partially in response to the downward flow of nutrients at the start of the season. Kinda counterintuitive but I just bang nails (and my finger today!#*)

Ron Wenrich

Don

Textbook of Wood Technology from McGraw-Hill.  I have seen tyloses in chestnut oak, but it isn't consistent enough to use for staves.  Back in the 70s they tried to use chestnut oak as veneer, but the market broke and they never persued it.

Tom

The mill was more of a stave mill.  The barrels were made somewhere else.

All logs were cut 5' in length.  They were debarked and each log was split with a circle saw.  I believe there was a top saw.  A lot of time was spent to split it exactly in half.  No laser lights at that time.

Both halves were sent to another saw, and they were split again.  Then they used a gang saw to cut down into boards.  Then edged.

Pieces that weren't quarter sawn were chipped, until they found out they were worth something.  

All boards were seperated by width.  Wider staves for bigger barrels.  The biggest being whiskey and wine barrels.  Not sure what they did with the smaller barrels.

I remember seeing barrels being assembled on This Olde House when they were out in California.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Tom

I remember a "This Old House" episode on a barrel factory.  It was pretty neat.  This conversation has caused me to learn a lot that I have missed in the past.  Just looking up the sites caused me to find more info. And the input from you fellows is great too.  It's amazing what I can learn if I get kicked in the pants.

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