Sharpening chisels and slick

[Andy White]

I am bitten by framing bug, and have a question about sharpening. After spending all day Saturday flattening chisel and slick backs, Do you all recomend a microbevel on cutting edges, or a single bevel? I have them all shaving sharp with a single bevel.Would the micro bevel hold up under heavy mallet blows,or use them as is?    Andy

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hi Andy,

There are some real strong opinions about MB on tools.  The physics kinda speak for them selves on the matter.  MB are almost always better to have, and make for a stronger edge, because it is steeper than the primary bevel.  Also resharpening is much quicker, and depending on how well you maintain your edges, can make them last a long time before you have to reset the primary bevel.  On Japanese chisels and plane blades, they often even put a very fine micro bevel on the non-bevel side.  Hope that helped.

Regards,

jay

[Jim_Rogers]

Do yourself a big favor and don't but a micro-bevel on the flat side of any chisel or slick.

Jim Rogers

[Dave Shepard]

I'm with Jim on this one, don't do anything to the back side but make it as shiny as you can. :D I put micro bevels on all of my chisels, slicks, and plane irons. I don't do it to my carving tools. I use use a 30°/32° on chisels and 25°/27° on slicks. I have a 3# Garland rawhide mallet, and I often am pounding my 2" about as hard as I can in some big joints. The cutting edge holds up fine, but the handle is taking a real beating.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Andy,

The micro bevel on the back side is not visible by eye, barely by touch, and would be measured in microns.  If you have tried the method and didn't have good results, it is probably because the bevel was to big.  The method comes from rolling off the "wire edge" that forms, which should only be honed off. You don't grind it in, it is only put on with your honing stones with only a back stroke, at a very low angle, maybe 1° to 3° (some plane blades get a little more.)  The stone should not be courser than 1 micro, and more like 0.1 to 0.5 micron being the best.  I have used this method most of my life, and learned it from, and have seen done by several master carpenters in Japan.

Regards,

jay

[Dodgy Loner]

I'm not a timber framer, but I do use a lot of chisels. Most of my chisels are ground with a primary bevel at about 25° and a secondary bevel at 30°. This has worked pretty well for me. I don't put any bevels on the back (at least not on purpose), but I do know of some period woodworkers who do amazing work and have small back bevels on their chisels, bigger than what Jay describes. But they use their chisels differently than a timber framer, I suspect.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hi Dodgy L,

Your observation is actually a really good one, and insightful.  I have a stone and wood carving background because my mother and grandmother both carved.  Wood carvers, when they turn their attention to timber Framing, are some of the fastest joiners I know of.  Amazingly fast.  I learned very early on, and from observing crafts people overseas that timber frame, the number one chisel to use is a gouge, (which often has a more pronounced "reverse micro bevel" whether an incannel or outcannel gouge.)

When I have taught workshops, I ask the more experienced timber wrights that may attend, it they ever use a gouge in cutting their joints.  Most say no.  I then ask if they own or use a corner chisel, many say yes.  I then explain that a timber framing corner chisel, is an in-cannel V gouge and a very good tool for more than cutting just the corners.  Without a drill, a good carver can cut a mortise as quick as an inexperienced framer with a drill and just a flat chisel.  Gouges are some of my primary framing chisels and the ones I use the most, with flat chisels only for cleaning up squared surfaces, but often I use a "tea house" gouge for that as well.  You are also correct the "reverse micro bevel" on these tools can be much larger.

[Dave Shepard]

Interesting you mention the gouge Jay. I'm in the final steps of my current Dutch barn restoration, and I am replicating some of the purlin posts. I spend a lot of time measure the scribe lines and generally looking things over so I can make the new part as close to original as possible. The technique used on these barns was to bore a hole in one end of the mortise with a shell auger, then use a mortise chisel to trench the middle of the mortise to make room to clean up the sides with a regular framing chisel. On some of the mortises, I've noticed what looks like gouge marks down the middle instead of a narrow mortising chisel. I suspect that a gouge would remove the wood with less effort than a straight edge would. I have a 1" corner chisel but I never ever use it in the corners. :D Sometimes I'll have a hole that I can't bore with the boring machine because of a knot, or if the length of the mortise is greater than a multiple of my bit diameter, I'll be left with a chunk of wood bridging the width of the mortise. I'll use my corner chisel to work my way down through this would so I can get in there with the framing chisel. Works well.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

You got it Dave.  There (gouges of all types) use was more common in days gone by than today.  That is why I think you see so many large "buck brother," and other gouges at antique stores.  Any timber wright I have gotten to start using different gouge techniques never turn back.  It is just a little quicker or easier to push...it's a lot.  Great story how you use your V gouge (corner chisel.)  I do the same thing.

[D L Bahler]

Swiss timber and log builders long ago did not always have access to drills and augers. instead, joinery was cut completely with an axe, drawknife, chisel, and gouge. in central europe, the gouge is a very important tool for timber and log building. the gouge is used to cut joints, make decorations, and cut channels into logs or timbers to hold tenons or splines
the chisels used are also different than you might expect, coming from and english tradition. the primary chisels used for any task in central europe would have been the double bevelled chisel. in his book, Hermann Phleps refers to the single bevel chisel as "English style'".

the gouges used by Swiss carpenters would have been large, round sweep gouges with fan-shaped blades

[D L Bahler]

and to further go along with Jays post about carvers, this makes sense. In Switzerland the carpenter must also be a skilled carver. carving is important on these buildings, especially in the Canton of Bern. the Swiss have a very impressive understanding of the working of wood.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

You did a great job of describing those differences, David, and that is very true, that would be an "English" gouge, and the ones from your region to eastern Europe and beyond are more alike,  "fan" or "fish tailed" often with a strong bevel on both sides, depending on intended use.  Log wrights have a much better understanding of different joinery techniques than did the timber wrights, both then and now.  They did indeed use gouges very often, most likely more than the flat chisel.

[D L Bahler]

I always was puzzled by the talk of not ever putting any slight bevel on the back of a chisel, and such. but over time it occurred to me, my way that I learned of using these tools is completely different. to me, the steep single bevel of English style chisels is more of a burden to be overcome
but in instances like slicks, or the stossaxt tool which is somewhat like a slick but is instead pushed on with the force of ones body, a straight back is certainly beneficial. but for most cutting tasks, I would rather have a double bevel. the difference lies in the way you hold them and the way you cut with them.
also, some time google a swiss pattern gouge. it is a large, fishtail tool obviously designed for heavy duty use. even though many would recognize them as a carving tool, they were developed primarily for the use of the Alpine log carpenter.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

I know it will make you sad, but I am moved to share this with you.  I not only know the Swiss chisels you describe, I learned on them, as my first chisels, and my set was over two hundred years old.  That, and many of my most precious hand tools from around the globe all got stolen in a break in about ten years ago, I still haven't gotten over it completely.  I just found a small chisel this past fall that they had drop in the wood next to the cabin.  It still really bothers me, they don't even know what they took, nor cared.  Each tool had a living history that is now gone, and all I have are the lessons that each of them taught me, which I take solace in.