Fertilizing new pines

[Dr. Jerry K.]

Last year we planted around 1,500 White Pines in a 2-row windbreak.  The trees were then about three years old.  They did very well in the last 12 months.  Now I am thinking of dropping a litlle 12/12/12 around them.  Some foresters from Purdue told me not to do it the first year.

My question(s) is,  is this a good idea now, & how much should I use?

What about fertilizing Apple, Pear & peach trees that were planted about 3 or 4 years ago?

Our ground consists of about 12 in. of good topsoil over clay.

Thank you !

[Tobacco Plug]

Dr. Jerry,
Why don't you have a soil sample taken from both your pines and fruit trees.  Don't mix the two samples, though.  Have your local extension agent get them tested and see what is recommended.

[Texas Ranger]

Some timber companies in the south routinely fertilize their plantations for a number of years after planting.  

Like Lewis said, get the soil checked.  Nitrogen is not high on a pine trees list of needs.

[Sylvus]

Fertilization of trees is typically unnecessary and seldom cost-effective.  With that said, fertilization is more dependent upon soil properties than tree species.  The soil should be tested with tree production as a land use objective.  Barring all this, a bit of 12-12-12 probably won't hurt, but may not help either.  Chances are the competing vegetation will get most of the goodies, which will not likely help the white pine growth.

[Ron Scott]

Ditto to all of the above!! Only fertilize after you have a soil analysis to determine the correct fertilizer to use for the specific tree species and management objectives. The soil analysis might indicate that lime is needed rather than fertilizer.  

Fertilizing general forest areas is usually not cost effective.

[Dr. Jerry K.]

Gentlemen, THANK YOU for the sound advice.  I guess I'll sprinkle myself with patience instead.

Great to have a place like the Forestry Forum!

[SwampDonkey]

All sound advise for sure...

In my experience in seed orchards and experimental farms, softwood trees don't take a great deal of fertilizer and nitrate nitrogen is not as immobile as ammonium nitrogen. Nitrate gets moved quickly with rain fall and ground water so very little gets emobilized by the tree. And if your property or state is handy to the coast, your soil is not likely to be lacking in K since it comes down in rain water. Nitrogen, by the way is the most limiting factor in tree growth as it is used in every metabolic pathway from making and storing food to respiration to reproduction. Also, posphorous is used in expending energy in those processes. If your pine turn yellow, generally they lack nitrogen, if they turn orange at the needle ends, they lack potasium. Often in tree nurseries I've seen red pine turn orange on needle ends from K deficiency. We used to spread only a handful of fertilizer around the drip line of trees in the orchard, trees were 5 to 15 feet in height. On a 3 year old seedling, no more than what you can put in your palm (couple table spoonfuls), you can burn your seedlings.

In doing a thesis on forest fertilization, I found that fertilizer only has a 3 to 5 year effect on tree growth and most of the nitrate was lost within a month because of heavy rainfall. Suppressed trees were further suppressed my dominants and codominants that responded positively to the fertilizer. The codominants had a 1-2 year delayed response.

food for thought

[Dr. Jerry K.]

Thanks for all the sound advice.   Think I will get a soil test.  That is a good idea, & I do thank you all for it.  

We have about 12 inches of black topsoil over clay.  I would wonder if just the topsoil should be tested, just the deeper soil, or both?

Thanks again!

[SwampDonkey]

Your feeder roots of trees are within the first foot of soil, that is generally the depth of good top soil. So, it is where you should get your samples from. Sounds like your soil is imperfectly drained with the clay layer subsoil. Probably you can see some pinkish or grayish pockets of subsoil from a fluctuating water table. You'll get shallow rooting on that soil with a possible windthrow hazard when your trees reach pole sized or bigger. Nitrates are highly mobile in that type of soil because of the very moist nature of the soil and the fluctuating water table to excell the movement of nitrates. Nutrient cycling is also slower, than on moderately drained sites because of the organics and more abundant microbes in the soil. But because of this, they are also some of the richest sites (hard to comprehend sometimes :D). If the site is sheltered behind a hillside from prevailing winds its not so much an issue with the winds.

food for thought

[Dr. Jerry K.]

Thank you, SD!  That is some great advice & sound reasoning.

A soil-testing we will go!

We do have some "rust" on some of the needles?  We also have tons of ash from our outdoor woodburner.  Isn't that rich in Potassium & would that address the rust issue?  Is this rust normal?

Thanks again.

[Ianab]

Hi Dr J
A 'rust' on the needles could be a fungus like Dothistroma. This will seldom kill a tree but may slow it's growth in a heavy infection. The trees usually develop a resistance as they get older. Damp sites tend to be more prone to fungus infection. Pruning to improve airflow thru the trees and to remove infected branches may help. It usually infects lower branches that you can safely remove anyway. In bad infections it can be controlled by spray, but thats a cost/benefit question.

More info on these pages
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/fidls/dothistroma/doth.htm
http://www.forestresearch.co.nz/PDF/Path05Dothistromaneedleblight.pdf
Ian

[SwampDonkey]

This site will give you symptoms of nutrient deficiencies.

http://www.pfc.forestry.ca/silviculture/lodgepole/visual_deficiency_e.html

Applying fertizlers
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/nursery/430-018/430-018.html

[ID4ster]

Instead of fertilizing the trees you may want to control the grass around them in order to promote better growth. OUST (Sulfometeron) applied at 1 oz per acre in water works real well on white pine. You will have to shield the trees while spraying  them and OUST needs rain to drive it in the ground. This herbicide is a great grass killer though and keeping the grass competition down around those trees will do them more good than a fertilizer apllication.

[Phorester]

Good point on grass competition.  A thick sod can quickly suck needed moisture away from tree roots.

Even when fertilizer is recommended (and rhe numerous negative responses here echo my opinion that it's not cost effective for a private landowner), the first step is to control competing vegetation so the tree gets the fertilizer, not other plants.

Not talking about just keeping it cut.  The key is to remove the grass roots, so you're looking at herbiciding or just grubbing it out. If this is a screen of white pine, properly applied mulch will help keep down grass growth.