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what size powerhead for an Alaskan 36" mill?

Started by DCM, August 21, 2013, 04:55:08 PM

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DCM

I'm thinking about getting at least a 36" (or perhaps the next size up?) Alaskan mill so we can harvest hard to get to trees or difficult to move ones or larger than my buddy's Cooks bandsaw mill will handle. What size power head do I need?  I have access to a BUNCH of trees in a bottom outside my hometown in north LA that would be impossable to get the mill to or the tractor to drag them out. I can get a big discount on a Echo saw, but the largest they make is a 80cc saw. If I need a larger saw I will go with a Husky. Can you get a 36" kit & modify it for larger trees? I think the 36" should handle most of the trees I'll get, but I have access to several that are larger than that.
Thanks
David

stihlsawer

394, 395, or 3120. Keep the chain sharp (5-10 degrees on cutter) and use 3/8 chain. Hope this helps and have a blessed day.

Trever
Trever Jones
Stihl 076 Super, 034, MS 260 PRO, MS 192T
Dolmar 116si
GB 44" lumber mill, Mini mill, Beam machine

Nomad

     My personal experience with the 3120 wasn't good.  On an Alaskan mill, it lasted about 3 hours milling time and smoked the engine.  Just my experience; your mileage may vary.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

clww

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. :)
When I make slabs from big pieces of trees, I use either my Stihl 084 or 090. Bars are from 36" to 60". Each is more than 100" of displacement. Milling with a chainsaw is very arduous on the machine, so keep the chains sharp, take it slow and your equipment will last longer. ;)
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Brucer

I used 70 cc sawheads to power my 30" Alaskan mill. That was a compromise between a light saw I could easily carry into the bush and one that was powerful enough to at least get through a log. Sometimes compromise is not the best solution :(.

If I were still doing this, I'd want at least a 90 cc sawhead.

I used 2 different sawheads and never had a problem with them overheating. The trick was to crack open the high speed jet on the carb and run it just a touch rich.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

fat olde elf

Ran a Husky 281 (80cc, 4.9inch) for years on a 30" Alaska mill.  Would have liked a tad more power especially on white oaks. I would look at 90cc. Sharp chains are vital in any case. At one point I had 11 chains in rotation. Didn't take long to stop paying others to sharpen my chains.  Still use the sharpener all the time. Bought a Cooks MP 32 mill and stopped breathing 2 cycle fumes for hours !  Say your prayers
Cook's MP-32 saw, MF-35, Several Husky Saws, Too Many Woodworking Tools, 4 PU's, Kind Wife.

shortlogger

You may want to look at some of the small manual mills out there some of them are fairly light to move around and have a real band blade and 4 stroke engine
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase . "NKJV"

fishpharmer

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

mikeb1079

Remember that you'll lose perhaps 6" of bar length due to the Alaskan design so that you'd get around 30" of capacity. That said, if you're making full width cuts you'll want to go at least 90cc. I run an 066 and I could certainly use more power on cuts approaching 30" in hardwood. I've been wanting to fab a large (60") Alaskan mill and wouldn't even think of using anything less than a 3120 or 880. Just my experiences....
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

mikeb1079

Also, where ya at? I'm thinking la is Louisiana, in which case the big trees would be cypress? Big cypress slabs can bring some money I'd go with as big of an Alaskan and power head as you can possibly afford if you have a market it could pay off quick
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

Gasawyer

I run a 3120 and have approx 75hrs milling time on her and about 50hrs as a chainsaw. The larger alaskian mills you can just build a wider frame rather than buying the next size up. I run 4and 6 foot bars on mine. Also I run 404 chain mainly had to run 3/8 for a while and it was ok prefer 404 at 10 deg. The widest slab  Ive done so far has been 64 inches out of a red oak. Regardless of the brand of power head your using run it for about a minute or two after each cut to help cool her off and possibly run a fan or blower on it as well on cool down. Thats the secret to making the power head last. I've used mine for 4 running hours in a day with no problem this way.
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

DCM

1st of all - thanks for the welcome & I should have introduced myself. New here & looking to educate myself on all things wood. I love woodworking, wood turning, harvesting & milling my own lumber & would like to build a timber frame cabin for our retirement.

Other than the trees in Louisiana I have access to, we have too many Ponderosa pines on our CO property (fire hazard) so I'll need to thin them out. I might as well mill them into bd's or beams? Given that I will most likely get my own Cooks 32" mill (or sim.), but also want to get something else to handle the hard to get to or get out trees. I would rather get a band mill so I won't loose as much wood, but will do the Alaskan type mill if I need to?

It sure sounds like the Alaskan type mill CAN be very hard on the powerhead - keep the right chain sharp & don't overheat the head.

Brucer - I'll keep your saw setup advise in mind. Opening that high speed jet & running rich help it run cooler?

Shortlog - You have me thinking about other options. Is the Lucas mill an example of the manual mills you speck of? What are others I shouold consider?

Mikeb - I live in FtW TX, but grew up in north Louisiana (Homer). & yes - there are huge cypress trees in that bottom : ) Are you in the LA area?

Gasawyer - what is the difference between a 404 & 3/8" chain?

Thanks A Bunch!
David

Gasawyer

Welcome to the forum DCM! The difference between .404 and.375 is the distance between the rivets and overall size of the chain width. So .404 is a heavier chain for a given length and it tends to last longer than .375 at least in my experience. But you need a larger powerhead to use it well.

Lucas mills are a manual mill that are great for difficult locations/very large-heavy  logs( just mill them in place).
Downside is low production and smaller dimension lumber. A 618 will cut up to a 6x6 without double cutting. I have one it is great but it can't keep up with a hydraulic  LT 40 which I also have. I use the Lucas to harvest boards off of logs that I am going to slab with the Alaskian or to saw logs that are too large to move.
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

DCM

Thanks for the welcome & advise Gasawyer. I've just started thinking about what I need to get & the more I know, the more choices I have? My buddy has the Cooks 32" bandmill & it's been great so for, so I'll thinking I'll get one. It would handle most of the trees I could get, but there are enough big trees & hard to get to ones I think would justify the extra investment? So do I need to get an Alaskan & a Lucas? The Lucas cost a good bit, but it looks like a great system for the hard to get to or too big to move. Not sure what size Lucas to get? A big chainsaw is lots of $'s as well. I can get an Echo 80cc for a good price, but if I need more the price jumps way up. Courious as to what size Alaskan the 80cc saw could handle?

Do you have a sawing business or just for yourself? If I get too carried away, I'd need to go in the bidness?

Thanks Again & I'm sure I'll have more Q's
David

Nomad

     DCM, as to the Lucas mills.  What you would need depends on what you want to cut.  Basically the main sizes are 6" and 8".  Mine is the 10" mill.  I believe the most common size is the 8".  It will allow you to cut 8" in either (or both) dimensions; so anything up to an 8x8 beam is possible without "double cutting."  That's reversing the powerhead.  Doing so will allow you to cut up to 16" across; you're still limited to the 8" depth of cut.  It will handle a log up to about 60" in it's standard configuration.  The 6" mill is more limited.
     The slabbing attachment will allow the 8" Lucas to cut a slab as wide as the log (Up to the 60") and up to 8" thick, if you were so inclined.
     If you expect a lot of large logs, expect to do any big slabbing, or have many logs in difficult places to reach and you have the use of your friend's MP32, I'd consider the Lucas.  It'll still saw smaller logs, but not as conveniently as a bandmill will.
     Or if you've got deep pockets, get one of each! :D
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Gasawyer

DCM I would think that an 80cc saw would handle a 36" without too much trouble. Since you really only sawing about 33".

Since your going to get the Cooks I'd probably go with the alaskian first. You can take up to 13" deep cuts with the alaskian by what ever width bar you have to wittle down logs to movable sizes or what will fit on the cooks. More work but alot less money.

I would also keep an eye on the various for sale lists for Lucas mills that's how I found my 618 at half cost of a new one.

Mainly I saw for other people, its one of the many hobbies I have that pay the bills.
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

Ianab

Nomads given you a pretty good run down on the Swing Blade mills. They are more expensive than the manual band saw you have been looking at, but they are a lot more versatile, and in the right circumstance they will outperform most portable band mills. That would be cutting dimension lumber from large large logs, they excel at doing this, and the usual limitation is how fast and long your helpers (or you) can work to keep up  :D

They can handle smaller logs OK, but no real advantage over a manual band mill in that situation. But if you have a mix of log sizes, you will be able to saw pretty much anything.

Other big advantage is the portability. You don't bother moving big logs at all. Haul the mill to where they are laying, set up around the log, and start cutting. Move a 400lb sawmill or move a 4,000lb log? A long as you have access with a pickup, tractor or even an ATV and trailer, you can get in, cut the log, and haul the boards out. Heck, with a couple of helpers you can even carry the mill a short distance, remembering you need to carry everything you saw back to the transport...

You do loose out on board width, everything come of the mill dimensioned. Size up to whatever the mill is rated for 6, 8, 10" etc. This may seem a limitation, but in reality look around a house or shed and see how many boards are more than 8" wide? Possibly none? There is also the chainsaw slabber option, which will produce full width live edge boards, suitable for table tops etc, and the mills do have the ability to double cut if you do really need those 12 x 2s.

Maintenance is also an issue. The swing blades use a small circle blade with carbide cutters, that you can sharpen yourself on the mill. Diamond wheel sharpener is included. Takes about 5 mins. When the cutters wear out, or get busted by embedded metal, they can be replaced by a saw Doc, or you can even get a jig and solder new ones on yourself. So blade cost is generally lower than with a band saw.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

DCM

thanks for all the info/help guys! Lots of big decisions to be made here.

Nomad - Is it much trouble to reverse the powerhead for a double cut?

Gasawyer - I agree - I think I'll get the Alaskan 1st, but must decide between the better deal 80cc Echo saw & 36" mill or the big Husky & any size I want? The look for used option is a great idea. I had not considered that. I'd love to find a good used Lucas for some big savings. I just took a quick look at the FS forum on this site & will be watching. Is there another site I should watch for used equipment? I'll also watch the local Craig's list.

Ian - You sure have thinking about the Lucas & it's capabilities. How much is the slabbing option? An 8" Lucas w/slabber sure would be a great setup. I need to make dimensional lumber, beams & turning blanks & think the Lucas would be great for all that.

Thanks Again!
David

Nomad

Quote from: DCM on September 04, 2013, 03:54:39 PM
thanks for all the info/help guys! Lots of big decisions to be made here.

Nomad - Is it much trouble to reverse the powerhead for a double cut?

Gasawyer - I agree - I think I'll get the Alaskan 1st, but must decide between the better deal 80cc Echo saw & 36" mill or the big Husky & any size I want? The look for used option is a great idea. I had not considered that. I'd love to find a good used Lucas for some big savings. I just took a quick look at the FS forum on this site & will be watching. Is there another site I should watch for used equipment? I'll also watch the local Craig's list.

Ian - You sure have thinking about the Lucas & it's capabilities. How much is the slabbing option? An 8" Lucas w/slabber sure would be a great setup. I need to make dimensional lumber, beams & turning blanks & think the Lucas would be great for all that.

Thanks Again!
David

     Personally I avoid reversing the head like the plague.  But that may be because I don't do it often and I'm not at all comfortable with it.  Maybe it's not as bad as it seems to me.

     The slabber attachment is a bit over a grand.  Well worth it in my opinion.  It adds a whole new dimension to what you can do with the saw.  Last time I priced them, chains are about $110 each, plus shipping if I recall.  Slabbing can be hard work; you'll get a workout.

     The Lucas is great at cutting dimensional lumber.  Where it really shines is if you have oversize logs. 

     Logs 3' or under?  As long as I can get the mill and the logs together it's WoodMizer all the way.  Logs 4 or 5'?  Can't get the WoodMizer to 'em, or get the logs out?  Load up the Lucas and start having fun.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

soutz

if your chainsaw milling at 36 get and 84. fairly cheap. good grunt. Once you slab then your doing dimensional timber can go for a 66 or a 46.

Sharp teeth are the go here. but a light set up with the 46 can produce a lot of dimensional fairly quickly. Easier on the body too.

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