Stick and flux core welding

[Rougespear]

I learned to weld with a 240v MIG machine 7-8 years ago, and of course I naturally used some flux cored wired for the heavier stuff.  Just recently I purchased an old AC buzz box and learned to run stick electrodes.  Even more recently I had the chance to use a nice Dynasty 200 DC machine.  I have to say how much I prefer the stick process over the flux core wire.  There is of course a learning curve with stick, but post-weld cleanup is so much better, the welds look far superior, and it is so much cheaper compared to wire fed processes.  That being said, flux core does still have its place in my shop, but I find myself reaching more often for the electrode holder instead of the MIG gun when fabricating heavier stuff.  For those considering making the plunge (or fear that stick is "too difficult to master"), please do so... you will thank yourself for the time invested in broadening your skill-set. 

[dean herring]

Even with flux cored wire I use shield gas. It as different as night and day.

[NH-Murph]

Wire feeders have their place, but for a general purpose welding machine, a DC stick machine is pretty versatile.  Wait till you try TIG... Life will never be the same

[easymoney]

each type of welding has its place. i learned the basics of acetylene welding and stick welding in high school back in the 1950's within the last few years i have been using wire welders with mixed results. each type of welding has its place.  i use stick welding for heavier stuff. then wire welds for lighter welds. i revert to acetylene for some sheet metal and when i might need to fill in a gap. for a lot of cutting i use a plasma cutter. they are almost like magic the way they work just using air and electricity to make an unbelievably smooth cut. i have not tied to master tig welding yet. maybe in the future. for the beginning welder or anyone that thinks they know all about welding here is a link to where you can get a lot of formation on all kinds of welding.  http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/stick-welding-7018.html

[Gadrock]

We all sorts of welding here. DC/AC gas generator, DC/AC electric stick and tig, a few mig machines and plasma torch, and aceteylene stuff as well as propane / oxy equip. We also have a couple buzz boxes.
     Each has its own rewards. Until last year my results with flux cored wire was undesireable. We started adding shielding CO2 with flux core and that is now my favorite, with the most attractive laydown. There are limitations, mainly positions of work.
    6010 and 6011 are used ocassionally but the go-to rod is 7018. Most all of our rods are 1/8 dia but frequently 5/32 diameter and sometimes 3/32 for som little stuff. 5 Lb of the little rods will last forever.
    In our humid environment we frequently spray WD40 on flux cored welding wire. It disappears at 250 degrees and the residue floats with the flux. Of course this proceedure is mostlikely disgusting to professionals.
    We use very large extension cords to run our electric welders out in the shop shed, with multiple plugs in large power boxes to hook up more than one machine at the same time. We never weld with more than one machine at one time even though more may be running.
   Well that is my 2 cents.

david G


carry on

[kensfarm]

Hi David,

Do you use a straight CO2.. or I know they have some mixtures.   I just started welding w/ a mig.. using flux core.   Thankyou..  Ken

[thecfarm]

I have my welder on a 2 wheeler with what ever the manual told me to use for an extention cord. So long ago,seem like 50 feet of some gauge wire that was VERY costly. I don't unwrap much more than 10 feet,but it's there if I need it.

[Gadrock]

Years ago we used Stargon...or 75/25. That is a mix of co2/argon and it performs a deeper penetration for wire feed. Consult the proper authorities about cleanliness. Back then we did not use s-6 wire, which has silicon to help float away impurities as the weld is produces. If you are researching this it will be the designation after the strength part, ie 70-s6. That would be a 70,000psi weld with the s-6 addition.

    As far as long extension cords are concerned, well there is no substitute for size and quality. Please contact the proper persons on your exact needs. Take an anti-acid and your friend's master card. But do it right...do it one time.

    Good luck to those in need of this project. BTW I would buy the same tools again...but bigger.

David G


carry on

[John Mc]

Even with flux cored wire I use shield gas. It as different as night and day.

Aren't you supposed to use different polarity when using flux core vs gas? Which way do you set it up when you are using both?

[gspren]

   My welding experience is very limited but I do have a good gas powered stick welder that is used more as a 10KW generator, on the rare occasions that I weld it takes longer to get my settings figured out than it does to do the job. I'm going to make an ATV trailer out of an old boat trailer so mostly less than 1/8" steel that I will stick some 3/16" thick angles on it. What rod and settings should I use? The welder is a Predator AC/DC unit with a 20HP Honda engine so it's capable of much more than I am.

[Gadrock]

This is truly thin stuff for stick welding, well by my standards. Consider 7018 3/32 rods probably set about 65 amps. I feel 1/8 rods would be too thick for limited experience and would be requiring a very FAST weld, and all fit-ups to be near perfect.

Younger times I did similar projecs, but we never had access to 3/32 rods...only 1/8 and larger. Sometimes we even welded and stuck additional rods in the illfitting junk to help fill the void. We did not have a good teacher and may well have not even listened to him if available.

Today I try to research more and fit things better. On your project I would have preferred mig welding. But there would also be another problem...mig does not like vertical welding. It is done all the time and there are practice points to be mastered to do mig vertical.

Get yourself some 3/32 at the local tractor-farm-welding store.  A small box of 5 to 10 pounds will last forever. Divide the box into smaller groups and seal the smaller groups to protect against the environment. Practice--practice---pracice before making your project. Two junky welds will never make a good one. A grinder from HF is cheap and use cutoff blades and grinder blades...then finish with flap grinder disc which leaves a smooth finish.

Good luck on your project. Please use all the required safety stuff and practices.

BTW those jack stands  from HF are inexpensive. 2x4's can be strung between them to hold your project off the ground.

One last thing...always work level. Level your project in every dimension so it is much easier to determine problems while working. This will become evident with usage.

david G



carry on

[NH-Murph]

Good advice on keeping the rod sealed up.  A rod oven is a great investment if one plans on storing welding rod once the can has been opened.  I use 3/32" 7018 quite regularly on boiler tubes and small bore pipe and run it at 90-95 amps DC, depending on conditions and the machine.  1/8" is generally 120-130 amps DC.  I know this is hotter than a lot of people that don't do it for a living day in and day out are usually comfortable with, but hotter is better for clean welds and most of the time they are getting x-rayed, so they have to be perfect.  I also run most of the higher chrome (8018 and 9018 with the same heat settings, but with chrome, you get into pre-heat and post weld heat treating.  The first and most important step to any good weld is the grinder.  Bright, clean metal, or I don't care who is welding it, it isn't going to come out nearly as well. 

[pine]

Good advice on keeping the rod sealed up.  A rod oven is a great investment if one plans on storing welding rod once the can has been opened.  I use 3/32" 7018 quite regularly on boiler tubes and small bore pipe and run it at 90-95 amps DC, depending on conditions and the machine.  1/8" is generally 120-130 amps DC.  I know this is hotter than a lot of people that don't do it for a living day in and day out are usually comfortable with, but hotter is better for clean welds and most of the time they are getting x-rayed, so they have to be perfect.  I also run most of the higher chrome (8018 and 9018 with the same heat settings, but with chrome, you get into pre-heat and post weld heat treating.  The first and most important step to any good weld is the grinder.  Bright, clean metal, or I don't care who is welding it, it isn't going to come out nearly as well.

Can't imagine running 1/8 7018 at less than 120 even V-up. 
As to rod ovens.  Look on CL you can find them rather cheap and are a good deal.  I found three for $50  from one guy and they all work.  You don't need a 300 lb oven the little ones do just fine.

[gspren]

  So 3/32" 7018 set about 65 DC is a starting point? I'm a retired machinist and I have an angle grinder, I'm even experienced at getting things ready to weld but at work the machinists didn't weld and the welders didn't machine so that's why my welding is limited/rusty although back in the 70s I did some while working at a small shop. I shortened the boat trailer so I have several pieces of scrap to play with.

[pine]

I think that might be a bit low but depending upon the base metal you might have to go that low.  I like closer to 80 for 3/32  7018.  It does depend a bit upon the brand you are using.  I like Lincoln Exclaibur for 3/32 and ESAB Acclaim for 1/8"  Read the puddle; that is the true telling point if you need more amps or less.

PS
Went back and read you are using 3/16 angle.  I would definitely go closer to 80 amps than 65 for that thickness.

[kensfarm]

 

 

This is my 2nd welding project..  3pt blade bought used..  had already been welded before.. finally broke.  It took me a day to cut it apart.. they had welded all the bolts.  This is the multi-voltage Hobart.. wired up a 240 to 230 cord.. running from a generator.  Using .035 flux core..  Hobart brand.. no shielding gas.. had reversed the polarity per instructions.

[kensfarm]

 

 

The plate had broken across the tilt holes.. looked to be same break as previous.  On the outside edges it burned more of a hole then welding together..  too hot?  I also learned you can't fill big gaps w/ single pass.. maybe I should have laid the piece down flat as Gary suggested about mig not liikeing vertical.  The break did not fit perfectly back together.. I grinded the best fit possible.  I was happy w/ the plate welds but not so much w/ filling in the holes.. this was only the 2nd time I had run the welder.. so don't laugh too hard.   

[kensfarm]

 

 

The backside went a little easier.  I cut the boxed end out..  it was rusted out.  I've reboxed it since w/ the ability to drain the water out. 



 

I'll have to get some other pictures off my phone from the 2nd phase..  adding some re-inforcement to the front of the plate.  I've been really enjoying it.  10 years ago I had dragged 1/2 dozen pieces of broken equipment from the farm across the street when the old farmer moved out.. all good stuff.     

[pine]

You will get a better finished weld if you do a bit more clean up of the metal before you start.  Yes you can weld old rusty metal  with 6010 or 6011 SMAW (but still better results if the metal is clean)  but if you are doing Mig work you need to clean it up a bit more.

[plowboyswr]

I use a an old Lincoln 180 buzz box for most of my welding.


 


 

[beenthere]

Can't tell from your pics, but do the welds look good?

[thecfarm]

That might break again at the weld. But you will find out after you use it for a while. I broke my loader arm and had to scab on a piece of metal on both sides,that did it. I have a linclon,kinda same thing as you,but I use .30 wire. Your welds don't look bad. Weld slow and make small circles.

[plowboyswr]

Can't tell from your pics, but do the welds look good?

if you're asking me, yeah they look good and hold good also.  :D  Was going through an old slew and hooked the back basket on the trailer on a stump stopped our 110 hp tractor dead in its tracks. 

 

[kensfarm]

Thanks guys.  It might've got rained on after the welding.. I really did shine the welding points.. ended up burning up my porter cable grinder when prepping for some reinforcement on the front of the break..  started smoking.. it was 15 years old.  Bought a dwalt..  bigger.   


   

[Kbeitz]

I love to stick weld. I do a lot of cast welding with ni-cads.
I have a very good mig but I just like stick better.
I have been useing the same welder for 43 years.