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Anyone want to talk about Belsaw Mills

Started by jimparamedic, March 20, 2019, 08:20:48 AM

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jimparamedic

I have the stuff now going to add the sawdust chain on Monday I hope

Trapper John

Jim, I was brousing some old posts and saw you used a hydraulic garden tractor for your feed drive.  I am thinking of going hydraulic and since I have a junk lawnmower that might work I was wondering how it works for you and how hard was it to build.  

 

 I made the frame for this mill from stair stringers from a 100' fire look out tower from Illinois.  Engine is 6 cylinder liquid cooled Deutz.  It is elevated because I live on the Yukon R and this can place can flood during the ice breakup in May.  The water would have been half way up the engine in 2013 when we had a 100yr flood.  The mill sits right in front of my abode, I truly live in a mill house and I don't have far to travel to have fun.

jimparamedic

You have a very nice set up. I don't have any good pictures right now but I will get some next week. What i used was a hydrostatic drive garden tractor I removed everything except the pump and the hydraulic motor i had to cut away some of the case where it joined the trans axle put a chain sprocket on the motor. Then hooked a 1hp electric motor to it to run it. It took a little time to figure out what to remove and what to leave but all in all it was not that hard to do. Hand tools, a right angle grinder, and a welder was all i used no machine work. I did this to replace out the old flat belt system that was warn out and also so i could run the carriage without running the saw. Where the mill is sitting now I did not have power so i switched to the mandrel to run my hydraulic drive. Also this is on my old american mill but would work on my belsaw to. 

jimparamedic

Weather was bad for my days off hoping Monday and Tuesday are better. Have a lot of plans to get done at the mill. Also found a 50" blade in Pa I need to go pick up.

moodnacreek

A 50" saw is big for a bellsaw. What is really needed is the mandrel off a l/h sawmill.  Was it trapper who called the feed handle a Johnson stick [bar]. Haven't herd that in a long time but lets not change the names of everything like the band mill newbees, that stick is called the crowd.

jimparamedic

50" is a big saw But that is what I have been running and not had any problems yet. I do have a smaller 40" saw. But it is in tested as of yet. My other thought is that in the future I can have A 50" blade cut down as long as the plate is good. And as far as the names of different parts it all depends on where you are at in the world. So it can be confusing at times. Like soda pop and coke.

moodnacreek

Everything has more than one name but with the internet people are misnaming things and making it stick and it bugs me. It started with calls for 'slabs'. I would say that I had a big pile, pick out any you want for free. I like traditional names. In lumber rule books FOHC means free of heart center, ok that's 2 names already [heart and center] so now the newbees , some of them older than me, want to change that to pith, why?                              Anyhow a 46" is the largest recommended for the 1 3/4" mandrel. Bellsaw once made a thicker mandrel for a 52" saw. My old bellsaw has a 48" on it. Most any old circle sawmill can accommodate endless improvements and the bellsaw needs many but this is so time consuming. Keep me posted, thanks, Doug

jimparamedic

I have a 2" mandrel I am going to install someday or use to build another mill. And I do understand the name game. Here in this area a slab was the first cuts off the out side of a log and a board with live edge was called a fletch. An with this it make it hard to tell sometimes what some one wants. I had a guy ask for some slabs one time and I said I had a pile and he could just have all he wants. When he showed up he went straight to my lumber stacks and started taking it apart to get to the live edge stuff on the bottom. so from then on I make them tell me exactly what they want. And thank God he understood once I showed him the difference.

moodnacreek

So you really understand. I suppose that I shouldn't expect everyone to be interested in history but a lot of the 'proper' terms in sawmlling go back before the band, circle and even the sash all the way to pit sawing on other shores. In a new high production grade mill [hardwood] they run band head rig and band line bar re saw. The head rig drops heavy slabs and sends the square cant to the re saw in about 8 seconds. The heavy slabs go to a horizontal re saw called a slabber.         Does your 2" mandrel have the correct threads?  By the way, live edge is called round edge in traditional lumber terms.

jimparamedic

Yes it does have left hand tread. I don't know all the terms and I do like the history. I really like the water powered mill. Where I grew up there was an old dam on Cats Creek on the Wagner Farm and the Grandpa Wagner ( not my Grandpa but a term of respect ) would tell me stories about sitting on the log and eating his lunch while it was sawing. It was a sash mill.

btulloh

He could get a little behind in his work doing that.
HM126

moodnacreek

On an up and down sawmill you are supposed to milk at least one cow per board sawn.

Trapper John

Doug, why would you put an arbor from a l/h mill on a Belsaw which is R/h?   Any diesel mechanics reading this post?  My Deutz had been running good but now it quits after one or two cuts.  It will start again but only after a minute of cranking.  The fuel return line has a good flow back to the tank.  My fuel tank is only 15 gallons and I was wondering if that has anything to do with it quitting.  

luap

Air filter clean? Don't just look at it but take it out and blow compressed air through it. Vent on fuel tank open?

glendaler

If its fuel related you would normally have to bleed it before it would start again. Clogged fuel filter or something periodically covering the outlet on the tank could cause fuel starvation. Also a weakening or failed lift pump which should be on the side of the injector pump on that. You dont want too much return flow, should be a valve to keep a certain amount of pressure in the pump body. As mentioned clogged intake or exhaust tract will also kill it. Check whatever mechanism you have on the shutdown too, make sure its not vibrating or being knocked into the off position. Try cracking a line at an injector when it quits to see if theres fuel. When your cranking it and its not starting yet is there any smoke? If the injectors are firing there should be smoke.
Belsaw A10 circle mill,

moodnacreek

Trapper, a bellsaw mill is an odd ball. Traditional sawmills have the mandrel , power, feedworks , etc. in front of the sawyer. Bellsaw put the mandrel in the track ways, the feed between them and the power on the otherside. This is why it is called a one man sawmill. Actually it is more of a bolter saw only with power feed, [not some early ones] Therefore the mandrels are threaded backwards from traditional.

Trapper John

I replaced some questionable lines before and after the fuel pump, raised the fuel tank above the pump, and set the idle higher and it is working OK again.  I think it was pulling air into the fuel line but why I had to increase the idle I do not know.  I am going to place my tank on an elevated stand, install a goldenrod filter and run a copper line to the engine.  I will look for that valve that regulates the return flow, it is really gushing out right now.  Thanks Glendaler.
Doug, did Belsaw use the same bearing housing with the 2" arbor they sold or did they provide a larger housing?

glendaler

Belsaw A10 circle mill,

moodnacreek

Trapper, I have never seen that heavy duty Bell saw mill. I had a brochure showing it that I sent to 'Cutting Edge' [FF member] because he had one. This mill hade a husk frame inside the way timbers. Apparently it did not sell. I doubt they could have used anything from the smaller shaft. Pillow blocks mounted on L [angle iron cut offs] might be the way to go.

jimparamedic


jimparamedic

I've really got to get the saw dust chain put on. Maybe next time.

btulloh

I'm really enjoying these two threads on Belsaws.  Thanks for the great posts.
HM126

moodnacreek

Oak is probably the easiest hard hardwood to saw. I remember thinking it was hard but sugar maple, hickory, locust and even spruce cause more trouble.

jimparamedic

I do agree there are harder wood to cut then oak. For me Elm is the worst of all you just don't know what the boards are going to do coming off the saw. Locust will sure make a saw scream. And when cutting sassafras it will sure clean out you sinus.  

luap

Quote from: btulloh on May 01, 2019, 09:57:45 AM
I'm really enjoying these two threads on Belsaws.  Thanks for the great posts.
x2, I also have enjoyed following the discussion on these circle mills. When I lurked before joining the circle mill discussions were few and far between.

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