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This wood is HARD !

Started by DR_Buck, January 18, 2019, 10:34:25 AM

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DR_Buck

I've run into some pretty hard domestic woods in the past.  I usually find it when I'm working in the shop or trying to drive a nail into an old seasoned board on an outbuilding.   But today I think I've seen the hardest domestic wood I've ever run across.    I have a load of a customer's Pecan in the kiln that will be ready in a few days.   It currently is between 7 and 9 % MC from what I have been able to check. ::)    I can hardly get the pins on my Delmhorst ES 26 hammer probe to penetrate at all, yet alone the full pin length.   :o     

I've cut and dried a fair amount of hickory, which I thought was similar to pecan, but I don't ever remember having trouble getting moisture meter pins to penetrate.  Is this common for pecan?   If it is that hard, I don't think I'll be wanting to use it on any projects coming out of my shop.    
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

It is not common, but pecan and hickory are very hard and dense, so pin insertion is difficult and pins break, especially at low MCs.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Don P

I tap the pins to make a mark then predrill down to close to depth and hammer the last little bit on wood like that

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Wudman

A pecan made me buy my wood splitter.  A big pecan blew down in my in-laws yard back during Hurricane Floyd.  I told them I would get it up.  I was a 32 year old "Stud" at the time, but that pecan put me on my knees.  I made a trip up to the big box store to pick up a wood splitter (that I use regularly today).  That leads to another good story.  I had a 2" ball on my vehicle at the time.  The wood splitter had an 1 7/8 hitch.  I didn't have a wrench with me and the clerk that was helping me came back out of the store with a pair of big channel lock pliers and two feet of pipe wrench.  I picked up the pipe wrench.  Of course the threads on the ball are galled.  I give it everything I've got.....doesn't budge.  Set my foot against the bumper and nothing moves.  The clerk gets down with me and nothing moves.  Yes I'm wearing Kaki pants and a nice shirt, but there is a Redneck farmboy hidden under them.  Some guy walks up like we are idiots.  He picks up the channel locks and makes an attempt.  The clerk looks at me like "Do you believe this guy?"  He then declares that it "won't move"......."no stuff Sherlock".  I believe that was in the days before the Bluecreeper......and I wanted my wood splitter so about 20 minutes with a hacksaw and I headed home with it in tow.

Wudman 
"You may tear down statues and burn buildings but you can't kill the spirit of patriots and when they've had enough this madness will end."
Charlie Daniels
July 4, 2020 (2 days before his death)

bwstout

Wood turners we call it pecan-crete ;D  it will wear out a tool and beat you in the process.  I try to cut it round before I put it on the lathe
home built mill

mredden

Yes, it's hard but doesn't come close to Live Oak.

bwstout

Never had any live oak but if it is harder that pecan don't want to try to turn any of it just would not be fun  :'(
home built mill

WDH

If you look at the janka hardness list, and start at the top with the hardest wood and go down from there, the first North American hardwood that shows up on the list is live oak.  Second is osage orange.  Third is persimmon. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

petefrom bearswamp

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

bwstout

home built mill

tmbrcruiser

I just dried some persimmon for a work table top. Pecan would have been great I just didn't have any.
Once you get sap in your veins, you will always have sawdust in your pockets.

farmfromkansas

I sawed some osage orange for a buddy, he cut the biggest trees he could find, and it must have been dead in spots, because it would saw just fine to a point, then just stop. Green osage saws fine, but that dead stuff, think again.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

YellowHammer

I still remember the first Pecan I milled, it was a big one, my band wasn't overly sharp and before I knew it I had burned the band and the cut was smoking like a charcoal grill. So I put on a brand new band, one of the precious few I owned at the time, and immediately hit a nail and before I could exit the log, that band was literally smoking as well.  Pecan is hard in more ways than one. :D 

 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Mooseherder

Live Oak was used in our Naval Ships early 1800s  They were nicknamed Old Ironsides.
We have one in our yard that we planted about 20 years ago.  It's getting big and provides welcome shade for most of the front yard.  I just bagged a couple bags of fallen leaves from it.  They dropped like snow in February.

Ianab

Quote from: WDH on March 04, 2019, 08:15:36 AM
If you look at the janka hardness list, and start at the top with the hardest wood and go down from there, the first North American hardwood that shows up on the list is live oak.  Second is osage orange.  Third is persimmon.
I think Mesquite is up in that range too. 
I've got a big stash of Casuarina (Sheoak) that we sawed last year. As far as I can tell it's not quite as hard as Live Oak, but pretty dang close. Was nice to go back to sawing Blackwood that's only about as hard as White Oak.  :)
But if you want to get silly, go talk to the Aussies. Most of their woods seem to start around the Pecan hardness level, and go up from there.  :D 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

moodnacreek

On dried locust carbide router bits may not work. I have had them un solder in a cloud of smoke. Had to use steel.

MiamiCityboy

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on January 18, 2019, 03:42:24 PM
It is not common, but pecan and hickory are very hard and dense, so pin insertion is difficult and pins break, especially at low MCs.
I  have a pecan waiting in my yard to be  slabbed and it is kind of dried already, I did not know was  going to  be so difficult, but I have cut some Black Olive here in Miami and so far they are the  hardest wood I have cut, even harder than oak , by the way  Black O  was the  first log  I cut and my regular  blade did no finish it , that is why I started buying the carbide tipped from woodmizer that are x4 $, but they are worth it so far, they even go thru metal.

mredden

I am presently chainsaw milling my second 30+ inch pecan.

As indicated by my name, I'm a newbie weekender. However, I have determined in my rookiehood:
Southern red oak = butter
pecan = difficult, requires sharpening after every tank but very doable.
live oak = never again. Why bother? What was I thinking? I'm not planning to build a ship.

My present log (Carya aquatica aka Bitter Pecan aka Water Hickory - I think) is 30+ inches wide, 12 feet long. The bottom four feet is full of nails, but I need 12 feet so I'm sawing through the first four feet with metal, then changing chains to finish. Use the second chain to get through the second cut of nails, then sharpen both chains. Fortunately, the nails aren't just eating up my semi-chisel chain. More filing needed than a normal field sharpening, but my semi-chisel chains aren't getting destroyed. I should reach the halfway point this weekend and will have fulfilled my 12-footer needs. I can then cut away the bottom four feet and mill 8 footers. Joy!

Is Pecan da' Debil as some on here have asserted? Nah, da' debil of America is Live Oak. Pecan is a mere minion ub da' Debil even with nails!

I made inattentive drying mistakes on my first Pecan and some (not all) due to splitting, cupping and warpage. This one, I'm being much more prompt (with one quickly corrected mistake) in endcoating, sticker-stacking, ratchet-strapping, prevailing wind direction and shading. So far, it's 100% gorgeous.

Planning to air dry on a porch til January then send to a pro for kiln drying. I want to have the conference table finished by July 2020 when construction of our new church (in a pecan grove) is scheduled to be completed.

QUESTION: When is the best time to plane pecan? Green? After air drying when it (hopefully) will have reached near average relative humidity for the area? After kiln drying?  Does early planing increase the odds of a good, flat WIDE board or decrease it?


nativewolf

Do you have kids?  The best time to plane pecan is after you catch them doing something pretty bad after they've hit 14.  Punishment would be straightening the pecan.  They'll clean up their act for sure.  If you don't have kids just wait.  Best use of pecan that I've found other than grilling. :D
Liking Walnut

Southside

You will see the devil come out in the drying process. As far as planing goes, you want to do that after it leaves the kiln and all movement has stopped. Twisted grain woods like Pecan, Hickory, Gum, Elm, are more prone to tear out in the planer so you want the lumber dry and the knives sharp. 

You definitely have determination, I don't think I could stomach having to return to the same log a week later! Good luck with the project.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Tom the Sawyer

IMO, there is no point in planing any wood until it is dry.  Wood shrinks as it dries so it will change dimension, and not always in a predictable manner.  Planing only gives you boards of consistent thickness and, if planed before dry, you would have to plane them again.  Plus, wet lumber will gum up your blades, rollers and bed - especially if you have a planer with carbide inserts.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

mredden

Thanks to all who answered.

Patience, patience is the key apparently.

WDH

And with pecan, some good luck helps, too. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Southside

Santeria and sacrificial chickens have their place too..  :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

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