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clark ranger 664 disection

Started by treeslayer2003, April 12, 2015, 05:50:51 PM

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teakwood

I think you line them up and then one rev is for intake valves and the second rev is for exhaust valves and then they should line up again. The 3 big gears their all the same size? So they make all one turn at the same time?
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teakwood

Quote from: treeslayer2003 on August 22, 2015, 09:25:25 AM
Quote from: teakwood on August 22, 2015, 09:22:33 AM
But you seem to be a good mechanic not?
lol, i am super good at replicating what i see. i can take any thing apart and put it back together..........but now, things i did 20 years ago are getting foggy.....don't trust myself lol. really just looking for opinions. and i never ran into this timing thing before.

Exactly like me!  ;D
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treeslayer2003


Warped

Quote from: teakwood on August 22, 2015, 09:18:44 AM
Correct me if i am wrong but should they line up every second rev? Like a 4 stroke
My buddy just called last night about this on his skid steer motor, and that is exactly what I told him. I always try to put the belts or chains on without the tensioner as well, seems that can get you off a tooth sometim.
     I'd definitely do a tooth count. Cam should have double...?
Good with the rough stuff and rough with the good stuff

Warped

My thinking is if the crank was 8 and cam 17 it would take something like 34 rottions to realine .....sure the info is out there, but I have to get to Booneville... :laugh:
Good with the rough stuff and rough with the good stuff

Warped

And the good news is, if ya been turning it many times and it hasn't stopped it must be a non interference engine.......



Sorry, just realized it isn't mounted yet
Good with the rough stuff and rough with the good stuff

teakwood

Quote from: Warped on August 22, 2015, 09:39:48 AM
Quote from: teakwood on August 22, 2015, 09:18:44 AM
Correct me if i am wrong but should they line up every second rev? Like a 4 stroke
My buddy just called last night about this on his skid steer motor, and that is exactly what I told him. I always try to put the belts or chains on without the tensioner as well, seems that can get you off a tooth sometim.
     I'd definitely do a tooth count. Cam should have double...?


I dont think so because one is intake and the other is exhaust. So the crankshaft makes one turn and the camshaft intake and exhaust has to do one turn each also. I think
But lets wait until the real mechanics jump in to educate us!
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Warped

May be a silly/thought question but what cranks are in these, I know they sometimes cranks get out of phase and it affects performance......or worse.
Good with the rough stuff and rough with the good stuff

treeslayer2003

Quote from: teakwood on August 22, 2015, 09:46:38 AM
Quote from: Warped on August 22, 2015, 09:39:48 AM
Quote from: teakwood on August 22, 2015, 09:18:44 AM
Correct me if i am wrong but should they line up every second rev? Like a 4 stroke
My buddy just called last night about this on his skid steer motor, and that is exactly what I told him. I always try to put the belts or chains on without the tensioner as well, seems that can get you off a tooth sometim.
     I'd definitely do a tooth count. Cam should have double...?


I dont think so because one is intake and the other is exhaust. So the crankshaft makes one turn and the camshaft intake and exhaust has to do one turn each also. I think
But lets wait until the real mechanics jump in to educate us!
there is no intake on these. the liner ports are the intake. thats why they won't run with out the blower.

snowstorm

i would put pistons and liners in it then you know everything is right

bushmechanic

It's almost as well to do the engine now that you have it out and stripped down. If you turn it enough it will line up but there is no need too. Line up the camshaft marks and get someone to hold the crankshaft steady so it can't move then pull out the idler gear and reinstall it with the marks lined up and see where the crankshaft set of marks come to then. Another way would be to count the teeth on each side of the idler gear when the camshaft gears are lined up, there needs to be an equal amount of teeth on each side. Hope this helps.

treeslayer2003

what if the cam had been changed? would that effect what timing it should be? remember this engine has been into.

teakwood

National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

treeslayer2003


treeslayer2003

ok, i got the timeing thing sorted out. talked to a guy at K S diesel down in LA, in this application and with out a turbo, all cams should be timed standard. there is no way to screw it up if you line up the marks correctly. this is what i needed to hear. i am gonna go ahead and put liner kits and bearings in it.

i do not know what was causing the slapping noise and miss........no pistons are broken or cracked. i hope to find a cracked liner......although they look fine in the block. my eyes ain't what they were so maybe i just can't see it. i really want to see what was doing that.

North River Energy

I would not re-use the rods without sizing the big ends and re-bushing the small ends.

Odds are good that your cylinders aren't cylindrical.  That, and the rod bushing wear you mentioned previously would account for some noise and probably some loss of compression.

treeslayer2003

Quote from: North River Energy on August 24, 2015, 06:07:02 PM
I would not re-use the rods without sizing the big ends and re-bushing the small ends.

Odds are good that your cylinders aren't cylindrical.  That, and the rod bushing wear you mentioned previously would account for some noise and probably some loss of compression.
i just took it the rest the way apart........liners look great, little wear, no cracks.

the rods are reman and look great........the pin is whats so wore. i have a new pin here, it fits like it should in the rod and piston. so how the heck did the hard pin wear instead of the soft bushing? this engine is weird. did some dummy use old wore pins with new reman rods?
also, the top ring only is worn badly......very badly on the no. piston.

would the worn pins cause a miss and enough noise to hear? i swore it pulled the top out of a piston......would have bet money on it.

kiko


treeslayer2003

Quote from: kiko on August 24, 2015, 06:47:38 PM
Time to break out the golfball.
your gonna have to elaborate on that one.......do you mean to set the pin retainers?

North River Energy

How much wear you figure on the pins?  And what's up with the odd burnished spot on that one rod bearing?

My tendency would be to measure everything, as its possible that the wear surfaces could look good but otherwise be out of spec.
Eg, the liners may have a good cross-hatch pattern, but that might be laid on top of a tapered bore.

You might have a bunch of good mixed in with a bunch of bad, with just enough agreement to run but not well.

treeslayer2003

i can easily see and feel the ridges in the pins.......a blind man could. i never seen pins look like that. could running out of time cause all this funky wear?
the spots on the rod bearing are copper. its worn into the copper but only in spots and very smooth.
i think you may be right. thats the trouble with some one Else's rebuild. hard to say what they did and didn't do.

if this was simply a re line of a good running engine, i wouldn't have these questions.

North River Energy

I was speaking somewhat rhetorically on the bearing question.  Should have been clearer on that point, but that's why I suggested sizing the big ends of the rods.  That the copper backer is coming through in one area suggests the big end may not be 'round'. Was wondering if you had a theory as to the uneven wear, and also if it was consistent on all three, or just on the one rod.

That much wear on wrist pins would probably be noisy, and might cost compression, as well as retard combustion ever so slightly.  Kinda guessing though as to how significant on the latter two points.

As to wear on soft v hard metal, I recently did the center pins on a CAT 518.  The big bushing on the upper half of the hitch measured out near perfect compared to new, while the pin itself was worn quite a few thousandths undersized.  And this on a machine that never wanted for grease over 20k hrs.

kiko


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