How would you fell this Basswood?

Gary_C · September 04, 2007, 02:02:30 AM

Last week I was just finishing removing the last of the logs from a job and the DNR Forester asked me to remove this basswood with a broken top. The only picture I had taken that showed the problem tree shows the broken top behind this log pile.

The log pile is over 16 feet high and the basswood is about 50 feet behind the pile. The break was about 30 feet up in the tree. When I looked at the stump, I found two stems growing from one stump. The base of the broken stem was about 14 inches in diameter and growing almost straight up. The other stem was about 10 inches in diameter and curved away from the larger stump and as you can see in the following enlarged picture, had caught the broken top. Unfortunately the break was directly over the stump or rather right over where one would have to stand while cutting either stem.

The only equipment I had at that time was my forwarder and a chainsaw. I did have a safety hat in the truck that I am required to wear at the mill when delivering pulpwood.

My first attempt was to use the grapple on the forwarder and shake that top loose, but I found the smaller stem was bent away and thus pressing that top firmly against the break. Nothing moved.

What would you do now to get that hazard down? I did not feel comfortable just leaving it as some local residents were coming into that landing to cut up some leftovers for firewood.

I did get it down and the folowing picture shows the same area.

Jeff · September 04, 2007, 07:13:34 AM

Winch.

sawguy21 · September 04, 2007, 10:34:56 AM

How would you effectively hook the winch besides tying it to the lower trunk and giving it a good yank? I sure don't like the idea of working under that top either.

Mike_Barcaskey · September 04, 2007, 10:44:43 AM

looks like you have a nice tree to the right. I'd climb that above the break and come back down on it.
or use a throw ball to set a line in the top. you could pull the broken top out first, then fell the tree.
Jeff posted a video of kevin setting a line with a Big Shot to give you an idea

Tom · September 04, 2007, 10:47:39 AM

You didn't climb out your forwarder boom and use it as a scaffold to saw up the top, did you? :-\

Mike_Barcaskey · September 04, 2007, 11:45:32 AM

personal experience Tom?

DanG · September 04, 2007, 11:46:19 AM

I would throw a line over the broken part way up there above that fork, then bring the line back underneath and anchor it. Then pull on the upper strand with the forwarder or a winch, causing the top to roll like a log being parbuckled. I've done a couple of leaners that way, and it has worked slick.

Tom · September 04, 2007, 11:52:04 AM

I'll have to admit that I've been guilty of that great warcry of youth "hey, watch this", in the past. While I've not done that, it's probably because I never thought to do it. How I lived this long is a miracle, Mike.

Mike_Barcaskey · September 04, 2007, 12:02:25 PM

you're only as old as you think you are

Kevin · September 04, 2007, 12:37:12 PM

Gary;
You can throw a rope over the broken piece and try to pull it or winch it out.
If the top won't pull off the tree leave the rope tied to the broken top or the upper portion of the tree and guy it back so the tree can't come ahead .
Make your notch and felling cut, go well back and release the rope, the tree may fall then, if it doesn't steer clear of the tree and move the rope around to the front and pull it over.

flip · September 04, 2007, 04:25:30 PM

25 feet of det cord ;)

Gary_C · September 04, 2007, 04:27:18 PM

I had very little time to cut this tree and no lines or winches or wenches available to help. So right or wrong, I very carefully cut my notch much like Kevin shows, although a little closer to 180 degrees opposite the broken top. Then I bore cut behind the notch about 2 inches below where the trunks separated on the stump and slowly and carefully cut back to the joint line. I was watching and listening carefully for any movement or noise and was prepared to abandon the saw if necessary.

Then I got behind the tree with the forwarder and put the boom against the tree and pushed. At first nothing happened, it would not break. Then I moved away just far enough that I could lock the boom straight out and was prepared to drive into the tree, but tried to push with the extend-a-boom first and it cracked and broke. Immediately that top whizzed down past that boom and hit the ground right beside the stump where I had been standing to cut the notch.

That break point was well rotted and there were no fibers remaining between the stem and the top. The only thing that was holding that top in place was the wedging action between the two stems. That is apparently why I could not shake that top loose, nor even move it. That is also why that top and stem came down so fast as it was forced by the spring in that other stem.

So brute force won, but only barely. I do not know what I would have tried next if I could not have broken the remaining wood, as I was not prepared to use the chainsaw again.

Tom · September 04, 2007, 04:36:04 PM

thank goodness for hydraulics. Where would we be if the Egyptians had them 10,000 years ago?

It's good to be careful and admirable to be safety conscience for the unwary. You were right, leaving that for someone who may not have even seen it, would have practically been homicide.

beenthere · September 04, 2007, 04:47:27 PM

Quote from: flip on September 04, 2007, 04:25:30 PM
25 feet of det cord ;)

My thought exactly. Seems the safest of all....

Gary_C
I figured you'd getRdun.. ;D ;D ..and that forester knew you would too.

I haven't been down in my own woods to look, but yesterday I heard a loud crack and then a crash...something fell but don't know what. At least no one was there at the time.

Burlkraft · September 04, 2007, 05:31:47 PM

Gary,

It's good ta hear from ya. We thought mebby ya evaporated inta the woods..... :D :D :D :D

I knew ya were haulin' like crazy ta beat the deadline.....Looks like ya made it..... ;D ;D ;D

Brad_bb · September 04, 2007, 06:05:41 PM

I saw a post on this sight where a guy took a slingshot type thing to shoot a rope and I'm assuming it had a hook on the end into the top of a tree to shake the loose branches off before felling. I don't know what that thing is called, but if you should shoot a rope/hook to grab that broken top and then pull/winch it forward you'd be in business. Anyone know what that thing's called? Sorry, I am a newbie.

Dave Shepard · September 04, 2007, 06:40:40 PM

It is called a Big Shot, and it is used to set a throw ball and line so you can pull climbing or bull lines into the tree.

Dave

Tom · September 04, 2007, 06:56:35 PM

Dave Shepard · September 04, 2007, 07:15:51 PM

They are great for snowball fights too, although I think that goes against the warning label. ;D

Dave

DanG · September 05, 2007, 01:41:35 AM

Gary, you did what you had to do, and you got away with it due to your skill gained over many years in the woods. But we all know that wasn't the safe way to handle that tree, and I'm sure that wouldn't have been your choice if you had had more equipment on hand. I've done stuff like that before and I've gotten away with it, but I'd hate for some newbie to see this and think that it is normal procedure. Mind you, I'm not criticizing you for doing it and posting it here, I just wanted to file this little disclaimer that it isn't the thing for amateurs to try. ;)

Now with that being said, I'm gonna put in a plug for those Milemarker winches like I have in my truck. I could have chained the front of my truck to another tree, and pulled that one over most any way I hooked it up. It costs about $1200 to buy one and put it in yourself, and it will get you out of most any trouble a tree can put you in. I'm not a logger, or even a good woodsman, but if I can get my truck within 200', I can handle it with that Milemarker.

Zundapp · September 05, 2007, 09:50:45 AM

I was faced with a nearly identical purdicament. All the equiptment was gone off the job, I was there slashing the unit, so all I had to work with was a chainsaw. Like Gary, I didn't feel real good about getting under that thing. Well, so happens, it was duck season & there was a little slough I liked to hit everyday on the way home from work, almost always good for one duck. So, just happened to have a 12 gauge handy in the truck, even had a couple a slugs & a few rounds of buck, it was early buck season as well & you never know. Anyway, I loaded up with 00buckshot, found a good line of sight about 50 or 60 feet back where it was nice & safe & aimed at the base of the break. First shot & the splinters flew. Second shot & she started to move. Third shot & she rolled out & hit the ground just as purdy as you please. (This was a remote location, wouldn't have tried it if there was a house or people around)

beenthere · September 05, 2007, 10:09:40 AM

Zundapp
You're my kinda guy... 8) 8) keep your powder dry.. :D :D

Mr Mom · September 05, 2007, 10:52:22 AM

Wait they make a big slingshot and i have been throwing a stick with rope tied to it to get ti up the tree.
I know what what i want for X-mas.
Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Ron Scott · September 05, 2007, 11:37:36 AM

Loggers are often asked to handle such unsafe trees during a logging operation, especially at time of sale closure when much of the needed equipment and extra help has already been moved off the job.

Us foresters need to be aware of the hazards involved and commend the logger for handling such tree hazards to keep the woods safe for others.

rebocardo · September 06, 2007, 06:53:51 PM

How I handle these trees is shoot some line over the top with either my Bigshot sling shot or (tennis ball) dog trainer. Once it is over the other side, I use it to pull steel cable over to the opposite side, then I shoot or throw the weight under the tree to complete the cable loop.

I keep a 21 foot paint's pole (three piece telescopic) with a bend hook handy so I can reach under the tree for the ball or line without getting close to the tree. Once the string/cable is pulled under the tree to form a loop, I tighten the cable by hand until I have a good noose. To get it really tight requires a truck pull, but, that comes later.

Then I get a line using the same method on the lowest part above the break and do the same thing.

I pull it down from the side it is most likely to work free. If I have a big torque truck with me (example Ford F-100 V-8 390/granny 4 speed) and/or if the broken top is stuck in a crotch, I pull the top back up straight and in the opposite direction. This will usually break any remaining fiber and the top falls off.

The reason for the lower cable is so if I have to cut the trunk (have not done that yet) I can cable it off so the top does not come down on me or push the trunk forward when doing the notch or backcut. Then I would use whichever line had the least slack to pull the tree down once it had a backcut.