Clearing a few acres... fall the trees, or dig & push over?

[wfcjr]

Am going to clear a couple of 1.5-2 acre spots in the woods for food plots.
Had a forester/logger lined up to do it this winter, but this fell through.

Will now be doing it once the snow melts.

Originally was going to come in after the trees had been felled and dig stumps.
But since the trees were not cut during winter, am now thinking about digging around base of tree
& pushing the whole tree over.   Primary purpose is to clear the land, but I don't want to waste the lumber either.  Primarily softwoods that I could sell or have a neighbor mill up into boards.   

Question is, how much damage will the tree sustain by digging & pushing vs. chainsaw to cut down?
Seems to me six of one half-dozen of the other.  No matter which option we take, I need to get the stumps out.

[WV Sawmiller]

Good luck on your food plot project. To get the most bang for your buck I hope you are making long narrow plots instead of squares. The edge effect provides the most benefit and are most attractive to wildlife.

Will leave the tree/wood damage question to the experts.

[thecfarm]

I see you said mostly softwood. I cleared off some land here,with just a chainsaw,cut the stumps REAL low. I was kinda slack keeping up on the suckers on the hardwood stumps. Those deer was not kinda slack.     They was eating them things like candy.

[snowstorm]

cut the wood first. then pull the stumps. dig the hole they came from a little bigger and put em right back in upside down

[wfcjr]

cut the wood first. then pull the stumps. dig the hole they came from a little bigger and put em right back in upside down

Not sure I want to bury stumps.  Will be clearing, plowing, leveling, disking & planting.
Will be driving tractor on these fields/clearings pretty regularly.  Don't want to hit the stumps while cultivating, the plow digs down a bit..  Really don't want to put a tractor tire in an old stump hole as the stump rots.

[snowstorm]

depending on the amount of stumps and the size the grade will drop after pulling the stumps. if you dont bury them you will have a really big pile of them. i usually dig a big hole pull them put them in cover it and repeat. how many rocks do you have?

[wfcjr]

depending on the amount of stumps and the size the grade will drop after pulling the stumps. if you dont bury them you will have a really big pile of them. i usually dig a big hole pull them put them in cover it and repeat. how many rocks do you have?

Lots of rocks...

Last time we pulled stumps, we just dug a big hole, burned the stumps as best we could along with the limbs, & then backfilled.

[Southside]

If its a feed plot are you dead set on getting the stumps out?  You really, impact the soil in a negative way when doing this, especially if you have a lot of rocks and not a lot of top soil.  I have done what you are doing on many acres on our dairy, I did pull stumps for a bit but soon realized the areas where I did not disturb the soil nearly as much grew a lot more forage a lot sooner. 

As far as the timber, pushing trees over with a dozer or excavator will put a lot of stress on the butt log and many times can split or otherwise damage the log.  If you are going to stump the land fell the trees and leave a taller stump - 2' range so that the dozer or excavator has some leverage to work with getting it out.  Its a lot safer that way too, no  chance of limbs breaking off and striking the dozer or shovel, or having a big tree fall the wrong way. 

[H.O.D.]

I understand the problems with the food plot. Tell you what I did. One of my plots is a five acre field which had been grown over for 30plus years. Using my JD5205 and much the same lineup of equip you have I started work ...for years. Finally had to admit I was spending lots of time and money and still had no plot. Hired a full size excavator for 2.5 days..in place of a bucket he used a large three pronged fork with a thumb. Easily pulled out all the stump, roots and large stone down to about 24in. Using my front bucket and quick tach stone bucket I worked it all off to piles on the side. Just remember to stay well out of his way. Took me four days to clear and re-level the field. Because top soil will get mixed in with with sub- soil your PH will drop a lot...while everything was torn up but smooth I had a truck come in and spread twelve tons of AG lime. Disked that in and spread 200pounds of winter rye.Sounds like a lot but wish I had down all that from the start..its a great looking field and investment.

[wfcjr]

If its a feed plot are you dead set on getting the stumps out?  You really, impact the soil in a negative way when doing this, especially if you have a lot of rocks and not a lot of top soil.  ...

As far as the timber, pushing trees over with a dozer or excavator will put a lot of stress on the butt log and many times can split or otherwise damage the log.  If you are going to stump the land fell the trees and leave a taller stump - 2' range so that the dozer or excavator has some leverage to work with getting it out.  Its a lot safer that way too, no  chance of limbs breaking off and striking the dozer or shovel, or having a big tree fall the wrong way.

We do have a lot of large rocks.  At the same time, the topsoil quality is quite good, (needs some good liming, but once that is done, soil is great), big rocks but the soil is not thin at all.

Points well taken on log stress & safety.

[wfcjr]

I understand the problems with the food plot. Tell you what I did. One of my plots is a five acre field which had been grown over for 30plus years. Using my JD5205 and much the same lineup of equip you have I started work ...for years. Finally had to admit I was spending lots of time and money and still had no plot. Hired a full size excavator for 2.5 days..in place of a bucket he used a large three pronged fork with a thumb. Easily pulled out all the stump, roots and large stone down to about 24in. Using my front bucket and quick tach stone bucket I worked it all off to piles on the side. Just remember to stay well out of his way. Took me four days to clear and re-level the field. Because top soil will get mixed in with with sub- soil your PH will drop a lot...while everything was torn up but smooth I had a truck come in and spread twelve tons of AG lime. Disked that in and spread 200pounds of winter rye.Sounds like a lot but wish I had down all that from the start..its a great looking field and investment.

Points well taken...

We always soil test & add lime & fertilizer as appropriate and disk it in.

Not on my list, but we do have an excavator.  Volvo ECR145 DL, reduced tail swing model, forestry guards on roof & front of cab.  May not be considered "full size" by a lot of folks, but at 35,000#, I am hoping that it will do the job.

[H.O.D.]

I think you have all the equip you need. Just consider maybe renting the fork attachment as it lets your pull thru the soil leaving it in place but pulling out most everything else. Wish I had an excavater.

[BEEMERS]

I regularly clear land with excavators at 40 and 57 thousand pounds and I definitely prefer laying the whole tree over and not having to pull stumps..even with the excavator.Also note that I said..LAY it over...or lay it down...as opposed to push,shove,smash,break...

[wfcjr]

I regularly clear land with excavators at 40 and 57 thousand pounds and I definitely prefer laying the whole tree over and not having to pull stumps..even with the excavator.Also note that I said..LAY it over...or lay it down...as opposed to push,shove,smash,break...

How does one "lay it over"?  I was thinking, dig front & two sides around stump & roots and push from back.
Not violently, but enough to get it over.  What is the proper technique for "laying it down"?  Thanks,....

[VTwoodworker]

I cleared some similar spots in the last few years.  It was 99% softwood.  I had really good luck pulling the stumps with an excavator and spending some time knocking the dirt off them.  Then piled them up and let them dry for 3 months.  The piles burned like a torch.

I wanted to preserve as much of the top soil as possible and digging big holes to bury stumps disturbs the topsoil in large areas.  I spread the ashes after the burn and they served a purpose.

I have also used the push over method for work in the past.  It is hard to salvage the wood and deal with the stumps at the same time.  When the stumps get removed wood gets dirty and erosion starts.  I much prefer to remove all of the wood and push the brush into a pile and burn that and then deal with stumping in a separate operation. 

Sounds like a fun project.  Good luck.

[Lazy logger]

I like to dig up the ground a little on one side and gently push them over. The weight of the tree really helps to pull the stump up and out. A thumb on the excavator really helps moving things around and cleaning the dirt off. I am able to do it with little damage to the tree except for rubbing the bark off. My 2 pennies.

[Holmes]

 I have dug part way around the tree and then just pushed them over. They usually do not go over fast. I have not done a LARGE pine in this fashion yet, mostly hard wood with big roots.   Why cut them down when you can play on the excavator. ;D 8)

[mills]

Earlier this winter my wife's uncle had his farm cleaned up. The excavator pushed the trees over, I would cut out any marketable timber, and then they would come back through and stack the stumps and limbs. The excavator operator and I tried a little experiment on four big oaks. I cut the first two and he dug the stumps out. On the second two, he pushed the trees over and I cut the timber out. We found that in either way there was little difference in time for me, but digging the stumps out took almost twice as long for the excavator as pushing the tree over. Something to think about if your leasing or paying by the hour for the excavator.

[clww]

The clearing work I now do is almost exclusively done pushing them over with an excavator. We send most all the wood to the mill, so very little damage. We usually are using a CAT 320 with a stationary thumb. That's the way I'd do it.

[coxy]

we dig 2 sides then push over with hoe cut stump off pick up tree and put in pile then take stump and do what you want with it much much nicer and faster doing the hole tree together

[windy hill farm]

I'm guessing this food plot is for deer, what I have done in my food plots is place the stumps along the edge of the field and leave openings so the deer are funneled into the food plot. After a few years the brush and briars grow over the stumps making great feed and cover for all the wildlife. I raise pheasants and chukar partridge and release them in the food plots and along the edge of the fields. While deer hunting over these food plots I've watched snowshoe, turkeys, grouse and the pheasants in and around this cover, oh and I've seen a few deer in these fields too.  :D

[BEEMERS]

The biggest trees I push over but just push enough to get them started...usually they lay down much easier than if you cut them.
For most trees..often I have to dig a bit on the backside to break the roots..often not, many of our jobs here are in sand/sandy loam  and I PULL them over...I have tracks facing about 22 degrees from where the tree is going I reach up hook the bucket behind the tree.Pull toward me or track away a little..slowly..as the tree pulls toward me the machine swings left..if Im left of tree Im falling.the mount for my thumb keeps tree from sliding toward me and that snot an issue because stump is still holding tree up.
As tree leans farther machine swingsbringing thumb along this side si it cant come toward me,bucket on other side so it cant go away.
Most of the time if this is done right I can close bucket on the tree and catch it on the way down and hold it and lay it where I want it.
You really need to know your machine limitations when doing this or could break something or worst case flip your machine.
I roll or lift the stump out of the hole so the cutter doesn't have to get in the hole and I can control that the stump doesn't fall away splitting the tree..if this is done carefully I rarely get dirt up on the trunk of the tree at all.Sometimes I get a little a foot or so up but not very bad at all
You can pput a lot of trees down fast like this and lay them out at the same time to make the cutting easier..Im right there to hold the tree so everything is safe and the logs don't get split as the guys cutting the logs out.

[Cazzhrdwd]

Seems to me the best way to do it is cut the tree then grind out the stumps, I've got a decent grinder for a skid steer that works quite well. I ground mine about 8 inches below dirt line, that put me right at the bottom of the stump, left all the buried major roots. Shouldn't need to do any plowing, just disking for lime.

[wfcjr]

The biggest trees I push over but just push enough to get them started...usually they lay down much easier than if you cut them.
For most trees..often I have to dig a bit on the backside to break the roots..often not, many of our jobs here are in sand/sandy loam  and I PULL them over...I have tracks facing about 22 degrees from where the tree is going I reach up hook the bucket behind the tree.Pull toward me or track away a little..slowly..as the tree pulls toward me the machine swings left..if Im left of tree Im falling.the mount for my thumb keeps tree from sliding toward me and that snot an issue because stump is still holding tree up.
As tree leans farther machine swingsbringing thumb along this side si it cant come toward me,bucket on other side so it cant go away.
Most of the time if this is done right I can close bucket on the tree and catch it on the way down and hold it and lay it where I want it.
You really need to know your machine limitations when doing this or could break something or worst case flip your machine.
I roll or lift the stump out of the hole so the cutter doesn't have to get in the hole and I can control that the stump doesn't fall away splitting the tree..if this is done carefully I rarely get dirt up on the trunk of the tree at all.Sometimes I get a little a foot or so up but not very bad at all
You can pput a lot of trees down fast like this and lay them out at the same time to make the cutting easier..Im right there to hold the tree so everything is safe and the logs don't get split as the guys cutting the logs out.

How large a tree, DBH, can you put down like this?  Pretty sure that I lack the skill to pull one toward me.  Was thinking more like digging three sides & gently pushing over.

[Verticaltrx]

As others have suggested, I like to lay the trees down whole, then cut the logs out. Regardless if you are using a dozer, track loader or excavator you will save a LOT of time digging the stumps out this way. I like to dig around three sides of a tree and use the other side as a hinge, then reach up good and high and push it over. Your excavator is the right tool for the job here, just be careful and keep looking up. If you decide to cut the trees first and leave the stump, leave the stump as tall as possible. It's really hard to get any leverage on a 10-12" tall stump so you end up digging a huge hole to get it out.

As for the topsoil disturbance, I'd agree with what has been mentioned. From a soil quality standpoint you are better to leave the stumps and work around them. It is almost impossible to avoid mixing the subsoil in with the topsoil when you are digging out stumps and regrading. If it were for something permanent like a pasture I'd just leave the stumps, seed around them and let them rot. For a food plot where you are wanting to work it every year you'll just have to deal with the loss of soil quality and get the stumps out.