one of my friends cut a finger off on the tablesaw

Dan_Shade · July 10, 2008, 04:14:16 PM

I had a high school shop teacher that was very safety minded, we had to pass a written test, then a one-on-one use of tool test in the shop. Lots of kids didn't like him because he was a hard-"bum", but I got along with him fine.

Those safe practices stuck with me.

I think if I were running a shop, and a guy trips the saw stop, he's going to get to go home for the rest of the day, on me. if it happened regularly, i'd dismiss him as a safety hazard. safety equipment should not surpass common sense and good practices.

thedeeredude · July 10, 2008, 07:16:20 PM

I heard that companies who use saw stop table saws get a discount on insurance. This was a local mill work company. If only this technology could be applied chainsaws. Last I looked on sawstops website they were planning to make a bandsaw also.

SwampDonkey · July 10, 2008, 08:08:40 PM

Yeah, I am real careful around my shop equipment and never try to pass undersized stuff through anything. That would be inviting trouble. There are certain ways to cut stuff safe and if you don't plan your approach you end up with a short or narrow piece.

Scenario: If maybe I try it this way, since I measured the piece wrong before I cut it a moment ago, although it's too small for the machine.......well......At that point it's best to toss it into scrap and start over with a good sized piece. ;D

WDH · July 10, 2008, 11:19:24 PM

Quote from: Dodgy Loner on July 10, 2008, 01:00:14 PM
[- I still drop-start my chainsaw (hey, it's got a chain break ;)),

Yeah, but we are still working on reforming you ;D.

Dodgy Loner · July 11, 2008, 12:41:01 AM

Quote from: WDH on July 10, 2008, 11:19:24 PM
Quote from: Dodgy Loner on July 10, 2008, 01:00:14 PM
I still drop-start my chainsaw (hey, it's got a chain break ;)),

Yeah, but we are still working on reforming you ;D.

I knew you would have something to say about that...I'm just trying to prevent a repetitive-stress injury to my back ;)

SwampDonkey · July 11, 2008, 01:27:42 AM

Oh, you'll more than make up for that tailing boards and handling the firewood. :D

WDH · July 11, 2008, 07:14:39 AM

Quote from: Dodgy Loner on July 11, 2008, 12:41:01 AM
I knew you would have something to say about that...I'm just trying to prevent a repetitive-stress injury to my back ;)

Repetition is the key to learning ;D ;D.

Burlkraft · July 11, 2008, 08:59:11 AM

Our shop teacher in High School had 3 short fingers on the right hand and was missin' 2 on the left.... :-\ :-\ :-\

Apparently all separate incidents too :

:

The guy was a loose cannon in the shop, but he was there to TEACH US how it's done.

I think back on that and wonder how the interview went and who actually hired the guy :D :D :D

Dan_Shade · July 11, 2008, 10:44:56 AM

I know a guy that cut his thumb off on one occasion, and sliced a figer badly on another in table saw incidents. one having to do with a belt recatching and spinning the blade causing a kickback, and the other he slipped due to poor footing.

and he told me "neither one was my fault" :

same fella also ran his hand through a ringer washer as a kid. some folks are just accident prone.

Texas Ranger · July 11, 2008, 10:52:01 AM

Quote from: Dodgy Loner on July 11, 2008, 12:41:01 AM
Quote from: WDH on July 10, 2008, 11:19:24 PM
Quote from: Dodgy Loner on July 10, 2008, 01:00:14 PM
I still drop-start my chainsaw (hey, it's got a chain break ;)),

Yeah, but we are still working on reforming you ;D.

I knew you would have something to say about that...I'm just trying to prevent a repetitive-stress injury to my back ;)

Let's see, bad back, or cut femoral artery. Hard decision, NOT!

Dodgy Loner · July 11, 2008, 04:05:03 PM

Did I mention the chain brake ???

I'm pretty sure starting the chainsaw is the least dangerous thing that one can do with a chainsaw.

Dan_Shade · July 11, 2008, 04:24:27 PM

i dunno, I've seen some guys drop start chainsaws where I wouldn't want to be anywhere near them....

davemartin88 · July 11, 2008, 04:49:45 PM

Really sorry to hear about your friend. I cut a notch in the end of my thumb on my tablesaw a few years back and consider myself lucky it wasn't worse.

A couple of years back, I bought a SawStop and love it, it's a great saw and the added safety feature was worth it to me- I don't believe I'm more reckless because it's there but others can certainly think that. I also wear my seatbelt when I drive.

I've never tripped the mechanism at home but at a woodworking show, I did the hot dog demo with the dog laying on a piece of plywood and pushed it in to the blade as fast as possible. There was barely a nick that wouldn't have required a band aid.

Made me a believer and nice to know it's there when I'm working. SawStop will also replace the cartridge if it fires from an actual incident because there is a memory chip in the cartridge that gives them data about what was detected at the time it fired. As I understand it, it measures the capacitance on the blade and the moisture from your finger (or hotdog!) causes this to increase and sets it off. If you're cutting wet wood, you do need to be careful and bypass the safety if the wood is too wet. You can first bypass the safety with a key, then do a test cut and a light will indicate whether the cartridge would have fired or not, if not, you can turn the safety back on.

Thought some might be interested my experience with the saw, again, really sorry to hear about your friend.

beenthere · July 11, 2008, 05:02:13 PM

Dave
Did you have your own saw at the woodworking show to demonstrate?

And are you saying that SawStop will replace the cartridge at no cost? just for the data?

tim1234 · July 12, 2008, 12:36:17 AM

Wow,

I know how bad that hurts from first "hand" experience. Almost lost my thumb and part of my index finger to a dado blade. Did loose a joint and some length off the index finger. Your friend will adapt It does make you angry sometimes when you can't do all the things you used to, like pick a quarter up off the table.

I hope he heals fast and I'm sure he will be extra careful in the future. I still use my saw, but in a more respectful way. And ALWAYS listen to that little voice. It will help to protect you.

As for saw stop. It's a great machine. IMO it has the smoothest mechanism for tilting and raising/lowering the blade I've ever seen. And I wish I had one back in '96 ;)

I heard that Saw Stop tried to license their technology to all the other saw manufacturers and they all refused. So Saw Stop came up with their own saw. They can keep their prices high because they have a monopoly. I'm sure many more would buy one if they made a low or even a medium end saw to compliment their beautiful big one. But unfortunately they have no incentive if people will buy a $4k to $7k saw. Great saw, but out of reach for the guy who wants a contractor style saw and doesn't have the big $$$.

Hey, maybe Saw Stop reads the forum. Hey guys, how about a lower end version for the little guy

Tim

thedeeredude · July 12, 2008, 09:04:44 AM

Saw stop makes a contractors saw now. It just recently came out.

tim1234 · July 12, 2008, 11:43:52 AM

cool

Wow, that was fast. They read my post went back in time and designed one.

Tim

davemartin88 · July 12, 2008, 01:41:47 PM

Quote from: beenthere on July 11, 2008, 05:02:13 PM
Dave
Did you have your own saw at the woodworking show to demonstrate?

And are you saying that SawStop will replace the cartridge at no cost? just for the data?

It was a demo saw at the woodworking show, I was in the audience and I told the guy that was doing the demo that I had a SawStop already but wanted to watch so he asked me if I wanted to do make the hot dog cut. It's amazing how fast the cartridge fires driving the aluminum brake in to the blade and momentum carry's the entire blade below the table top. You hear a loud bang and it's gone. One thing you can see when you look at a cartridge that has been used is how few teeth on the blade are actually damaged and embedded in the aluminum. Gives you an idea how quickly it stops the blade, the blade is not fixable but for a $90 blade and a $70 cartridge to not have the injury, it's worth it to me.

I was told that for an actual incident, SawStop would replace your cartridge free in order to get the data. This was a couple of years back and they may not still do this given there have been enough incidents for them to retrieve the data they need but don't know for sure. They recently came out with a second generation cartridge that is supposed to be a bit better with "false" firings but haven't looked in to it as I've not had a problem with mine firing by mistake (or for real). I think this probably comes from feedback from the commercial users.

Take care, dave.

Dodgy Loner · July 12, 2008, 05:00:31 PM

Quote from: tim1234 on July 12, 2008, 12:36:17 AM
Hey, maybe Saw Stop reads the forum. Hey guys, how about a lower end version for the little guy

I think they released their contractor's saw a couple years ago. Read a review that said it was the best contractor's saw on the market, hands down, even without the SawStop technology. I'm not sure what the price is, but here's a link: Contractor saw

Part_Timer · July 16, 2008, 04:33:13 PM

Well just an update. We found out yesterday that my friend will be out until at least the 28th of July. Yesterday was a bad day for him. They took off tha bandages and he can actually see that a finger is missing. He stopped in to see everyone in the shop and the guys tell me that it was messing with his head pretty bad. I'll check in with him after vacation.

Dodgy Loner · July 17, 2008, 10:26:40 AM

It will take some getting used to, for sure. I wish him the best of luck :-\

Brad_bb · July 17, 2008, 11:26:27 AM

Boy this is a really tough subject. What I mean is, I have a 1953 Delta Unisaw that wasn't used much in it's life by looking at the condition it's in. I bought it, with some attachments for $1100 and a fiberglass repo motor cover for $100.
It's difficult to justify spending $3000-$4000 on a saw stop. On one hand it's a lot of money that most people can't easily or readily afford. On the other hand, you ask what are your fingers worth? A trip to the emergency room will easily cost more than the sawstop saw. Looking at it that way, how can you "not afford" to do it?
On the plus side, it looks like the saw stop comes with the Biesemeyer fence system, which my saw does not have.....
Oh what a tough one to think about.... Can I afford to spend that kind of money? How can I not afford to spend it to save the fingers?! Jeez how difficult!

DouginUtah · July 17, 2008, 01:16:55 PM

Brad and others with a tablesaw,

You may be interested in a new website (blog) run by Ed Bennett, manufacturer of the TS-Aligner.

There is a lot of information there including restoration of a Delta contractors saw, and how to properly align a tablesaw.

Unfortunately, you have to register to get to it, but that shouldn't be a problem as Ed can be trusted to not spam you.

http://tablesawalignment.com/blog/

A properly aligned tablesaw is a safer saw. ;)

Hokiemill · July 18, 2008, 11:18:12 AM

Sorry for my late input to this. Part-Timer, sorry to hear about your friend. We all know someone who has had a run in with a tablesaw. I agree completely with Dodgy that a riving knife is the answer. The Europeans are decades ahead of us when it comes to safety.

About 7 years ago I had a pretty bad fight with a TS and I lost. It was a dado stack only 1/4" wide and 3/8" of exposed blade. Cutting a groove in a cabinet leg and it started to "feel" like the leg wanted to wander away from the fence so I (stupidly) used my left hand to make sure the leg stayed against the fence by guiding it. Unfortunately I was guiding it on the outfeed side. Wrong place at the wrong time - after a bit I had a big kickback which dragged my left hand into the outfeed side of the dado stack. I didn't lose any fingers but I did get about forty stitches across all five fingers, several hours of major surgery, a compound fracture, and a pin holding the end of my middle finger on. After six months of rehab, they all still worked, some won't straighten all the way, and my hand modeling career is definitely over.

A riving knife wouldn't help with a dado stack, but that's why dado stacks are outlawed in Europe. I try to stay away from any cut that keeps the blade buried. Seems safe, but the force from the blade pushes the board directly back towards you instead of down towards the table in a through cut (with the blade raised high enough).

Strangely, despite all of the pain, my biggest problem was feeling guilty and embarrassed about it all. I felt guilty for doing something dumb and putting the other workers in the shop through the drama, putting my family through the drama, and I was embarrassed for having made such a silly mistake. Part-Timer, tell your friend to use it as a learning experience and a teaching experience and not to feel embarrassed - accidents can happen to anyone.

treecyclers · July 18, 2008, 03:06:05 PM

The sawstop fence system is a biesemeyer clone, and rest assured that the saw is worth every penny of the money they cost.
Even the used ones that have slowly started coming on the market are bringing near new prices, as in 10-15% below new, partly because they're very rare to find used, partly because they're in such demand in general.
I understand the reluctance to part with "old tried-and-true", but as we all get on in our years, we're also more prone to mistakes in other fashions that can easily maim or mangle our precious digits to a point that we can't use them.
Besides, it's tough to do any woodworking if our digits are missing!
SD