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Bandsaw mill build

Started by TreeStandHunter, February 02, 2019, 10:49:23 AM

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wisconsitom

Thanks crusarius.  I have just gotten off the phone with my electric power provider and learned a few things;  Firstly, that is definitely single-phase out on that road.  This individual states that the power co. will have no issues with a 10HP-rated motor on a device.  He did say one could use an electronic soft start, which is a dumbed-down VFD, to start the motor.  No need for variable power control in a bandsaw-just run at full power usually.  I could go on to add planer, resaw...etc...so long as just one device was ever getting used at a time.  Those devices are normally run at full speed as well.  He did suggest installing sufficiently-beefy panel, transformer, etc. initially to avoid upgrade costs in that arena later.  Makes sense.

Now I'm wondering why 6 or 8 guys were almost shouting at me in a different thread that I'd need a rotary phase converter to even think about this working out.  Not at all the picture I'm getting from power co. guy.

Thanks,
tom
Ask me about hybrid larch!

Crusarius

Truth is 3 phase is superior. But it comes at a cost. My personal preference is less things to break and less things to buy = smarter decision and more money for other toys :)

K.I.S.S.

boardmaker

AS far as I know, there are not any single phase soft starts available.  And if there are, don't use one.  If you lower the voltage, you will lower the available starting torque.  And if the motor stalls, your starting switch will not survive. 

Crusarius

The soft start capacitor on the hydraulic pump on our rescue truck is a terrible thing!!!

after so many starts the capacitor will blow. its a real PITA changing it. It is the hydraulic pump for the jaws of life. Needless to say we carry a portable unit on the truck for just such an occasion.


scrout

If you google Matt Cremona, he used a 10 HP motor with 10 HP VFD and saws everything without too much of a problem.   The bad part about a 10 hp single phase is the tremendous input current rush at starting so you have to have a higher capacity system.  The VFD is soft start, so no clutch needed or anything and starting is easy on components.
The 10HP chinese Huanyang VFD is $265 on Amazon.  The sawmill load would not be something difficult for a VFD, as long as you don't fill it up with sawdust.
You should be able to find a 10 HP 3 ph motor for pretty cheap used.
A VFD system would be easier to run off a generator too if you need to go mobile.

TreeStandHunter

Quote from: scrout on February 07, 2019, 02:32:40 PM
If you google Matt Cremona, he used a 10 HP motor with 10 HP VFD and saws everything without too much of a problem.   The bad part about a 10 hp single phase is the tremendous input current rush at starting so you have to have a higher capacity system.  The VFD is soft start, so no clutch needed or anything and starting is easy on components.
The 10HP chinese Huanyang VFD is $265 on Amazon.  The sawmill load would not be something difficult for a VFD, as long as you don't fill it up with sawdust.
You should be able to find a 10 HP 3 ph motor for pretty cheap used.
A VFD system would be easier to run off a generator too if you need to go mobile.
I followed Matt's build but was not aware that he used a 10hp VFD for his 10hp motor. I am going to comment on his latest vid and find out exactly what he used because I am under the impression that with single phase input you must use a VFD that is rated for higher HP because of amperage.
In the process of building my own mill.

charles mann

Quote from: TreeStandHunter on February 07, 2019, 02:38:23 PM
Quote from: scrout on February 07, 2019, 02:32:40 PM
If you google Matt Cremona, he used a 10 HP motor with 10 HP VFD and saws everything without too much of a problem.   The bad part about a 10 hp single phase is the tremendous input current rush at starting so you have to have a higher capacity system.  The VFD is soft start, so no clutch needed or anything and starting is easy on components.
The 10HP chinese Huanyang VFD is $265 on Amazon.  The sawmill load would not be something difficult for a VFD, as long as you don't fill it up with sawdust.
You should be able to find a 10 HP 3 ph motor for pretty cheap used.
A VFD system would be easier to run off a generator too if you need to go mobile.
I followed Matt's build but was not aware that he used a 10hp VFD for his 10hp motor. I am going to comment on his latest vid and find out exactly what he used because I am under the impression that with single phase input you must use a VFD that is rated for higher HP because of amperage.
He has a whole section within his build playlist that covers the vfd. He bought the wrong 1 at first, bought a sec 1 that had a board burned out, luckily the first vfd had the same board and he seapped it out. Then had issues with programming it and finally got it working. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

charles mann

@TreeStandHunter 

here is Matt Cremona's motor section of his build. it is "episode" 11 of the 24 episode build. 

The Drive Motor - Building a Large Bandsaw Mill - Part 11 - YouTube
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

TreeStandHunter

I've watched all of his videos, a few several times. I went through the comments on his motor video and he stated to several people that it is a 15hp VFD. 
In the process of building my own mill.

charles mann

yes, he is using a 15 hp inverter. the sj700-110lfu designates 15 hp. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

wisconsitom

@ boardmaker;  So then if I understand correctly...I would select the WM model with the 3-phase motor....if my plan was to indeed use either a VFD or rotary converter, in my single-phase supply world, correct?

Again, this is all just fun speculation for me, and an opportunity to learn a tiny bit about electric power distribution.  But I sure enjoy the convo.

My Financial Director has not necessarily gotten on-board with the mill idea yet!

Thanks,
tom
Ask me about hybrid larch!

boardmaker


TreeStandHunter

I had about 45 minutes to do some work before the kids got home from school so I started working on the track. I am hoping to come up with a way to scrap this trailer into a usable mobile track for the mill. The galvanized bunks I have are 3/16 tubing so any weight support will be done off that. The I-beam steel from this old trailer I'm going to mount off the side of the galvanized in two pieces, the first to use as the rail for the carriage to roll on and the second for the axle to mount to. Also I'll be welding some plate steel to the sections of galvanized to make where they come together nice and strong. This first weld was just getting them lined up straight


 


 


 


 




In the process of building my own mill.

Crusarius

Just fair warning. anything "I" shaped or "C" shaped will have a a tendency to twist. So make sure you support it properly. If your carriage rolls on the rails and they twist that makes for some very odd shaped lumber.

TreeStandHunter

Thanks for the tip crusarious, I am going to make sure it is supported well and very solid. I'm going to purchase some angle iron for the carriage to roll on and mount it off the I-beams nice and true. Using scrap steel nothing is square so I am make this main track part and then will mount the log bunks to that square to the angle that the carriage will roll on, if that makes sense...anyways I got a little more done today, working here and there but made some decent progress today, I'm going to cut off the left leaf spring and only use the axle mount on the right side. This is my first ever welding project so it's definitely a learning experience. It will be mobile but only will move once or twice a year a few miles down the road to my fathers house.



 











 



 
In the process of building my own mill.

Crusarius

you have alot of pitting in your weld. You are either out of gas or do not have enough pressure to combat the breeze being outside. That needs to be addressed before you continue. 

It also looks like you are not using enough heat. Is that a 110v welder?

TreeStandHunter

It's a 110 arc welder. These are definitely cold, once the mill is together before paint I'll be taking it to my father in-laws to run his 220 miller on it on anything structural. I am aware that this 110 welder is not capable of making a trailer road safe. Also I just need to practice lmao. What can I do to not have the pitting? Is that forming because of the cold weld?
In the process of building my own mill.

charles mann

It could be from low amperage, dirty material, bad rods, not creating a flux shield and letting O2 into the puddle during cool down, moving to fast. Low amperage is probably the culprit though. 
What size and type rod 1/8 6011? New box or box been sitting around in non climate control? 
  
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

TreeStandHunter

3/32 6011 rod that I keep in my laundry room, I assume it's just the low amps, maxes out at 80 amps but probably is welding at 70 realistically.
In the process of building my own mill.

Crusarius

that is 100% dirty metal. 6011 is a relatively forgiving rod. If you can get it to arc it usually burn pretty well. 

Don't be afraid of 110. it can do structural welds and be safe. the trick is proper technique. The problem is learning proper technique on something like this is not a great idea :) especially without a teacher.

3/32 rod with only 80 amps will definitely not have much penetration though. you be alot better with 1/8"

your actual welding technique looks decent though. just a little to fast but the puddle looked alright from what I could see.

TreeStandHunter

I am going to the farm store to buy some buckets for maple sap tonight, I'll grab some 1/8th rod while I'm there. Thanks for the tip. I need a tractor with a loader this thing got heavy real quick
In the process of building my own mill.

Crusarius

I had that same problem. the loader still not big enough.

TreeStandHunter

I haven't done too much since this winter, finally got the track frame into the garage and now that it's getting warm I plan on working on it a few nights a week after I put the kiddos to bed. Still have to do a few more welds and remove The leaf springs and remount just 1. Then moving onto the other side. I switched rod from 3/32 6011 to 1/8 6011. These are my first welds with that rod I need some practice. I did clean up the steel where the welds make contact.


 

 

 
In the process of building my own mill.

TreeStandHunter

Well I decided to widen the track. Was 24.5" now it's 36.25". I think in the long run the work to do this will be worth it. Its increasing the size of logs I am able to mill dramatically. Picked up this 1/2" thick I-beam earlier in the week and am using it as the main log supports, the rest of them will be 2x5 1/8" tubing.


  


 
In the process of building my own mill.

tacks Y

Did you try grinding the galv off first? Need to watch that it can make you sick. I would grind and try 7014 or 7018.

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