Sticks Per Tree

[Gary_C]

I was looking at a timber sale that is mostly Aspen. Everything looked OK till I noticed it said - Average dbh/sticks: Aspen-6" , 3.5 sticks , 13 cords/acre.

How can you estimate and sell 3.5 pulp sticks per tree? Who buys that half of a stick? And no, biomass is not allowed to be harvested.

[Ianab]

Some trees make 3 logs, some make 4.  Average it out you get 3.5 ?

[Ron Scott]

I agree with that is how it was arrived at. Also a computer run estimate of the cruise measurements.

[Gary_C]

Both Aspen and plantation pine are almost exactly the same height in any given stand.  Once you start cutting, you always know you are going to get the same number of 100 inch sticks from all the trees.

That's why I question how you can get an accurate measurement when you are selling 100 inch pulpwood with a 4 inch minimum top and use fractions of a stick. Even when you get close to an extra stick, you always have to ignore the 4 inch minimum top. Plus most of the mills that take Aspen are getting fussy about that 4 inch minimum because the smaller ends break and cause problems in their debarkers.

[Ianab]

On flat even ground there might not be much variation. But if you have different terrain and soil types you can get a big difference in growth across a plantation.

[Gary_C]

Just for reference, I am not talking about some uneven aged or mixed hardwood stand. This is about Aspen that starts out as a clearcut or a Pine stand that is all planted at the same time. I think you would be surprised at how little variation in height that exists in these even aged stands.

When you cut these stands with a processor as I do, the computer keeps track of each tree, the top diameter of each stick, and the volume of wood that is processed. It displays all the sticks cut for each tree until you tilt the head up for the next tree. The computer stops feeding when you reach the minimum diameter that is set and it's remarkable how you end up with the same number of sticks and the same length of leftover at the top for every tree in the stand.

And that leads me to my question. If I am going to get three sticks and a part of one from each tree, the estimate has to be too high, perhaps by as much as 25 to 30 percent? Or is there something I'm not seeing?

[Ron Scott]

Are you cutting the minimum top diameter of your last stick at 3.5" or exactly at 4.0"?

[chevytaHOE5674]

I've processed lots and lots of plantation pine and also even aged aspen. I notice a good bit of variation in height UP this way. Just because they are even aged stands not all diameters are equal and not all growth rates are equal. There are always some trees that are one or two sticks taller than the rest. So if you average that across the stand you will end up with an uneven average number of sticks per tree.

For instance I just finished up a second thinning in plantation red pine. 80% of the stems were in the 10-14" range, but there was also some 5-6" suppressed trees, and also a few 16-20+" trees with the largest being 23.5". All trees were planted and thinned at the same time. As you can imagine the larger and smaller trees had above and below the average number of 8' pulp sticks.

[Ianab]

Yeah, I'm thinking it's a regional thing.

You can drive through the big pine plantations in the center of the Nth Island, and it's just miles of identical trees on basically flat ground. I can see going though there with a harvester and 90% of the trees would cut the same.

But you check out a local hill country plantation and there is a huge variation between the trees down on the river flats and those clinging to the side of a hill with minimal topsoil. You will be cutting trees 12" dbh in one spot and 24" just a few yards away.

[Gary_C]

Are you cutting the minimum top diameter of your last stick at 3.5" or exactly at 4.0"?

I think I have the minimum set at about 3 inches. The machine will stop at the minimum and I do manually feed if there is enough left to make a stick.

I have been cutting mostly pine where the mills do not fuss about undersized tops as long as there are just a few. But the Aspen buyers have been on the rampage about undersized wood and threaten to reject loads with anything under their minimum. Plus the specs on this job call for cutting everything 2" dbh and larger while the utilization calls for 4" dib.  :

In addition the job is apparently on a poor site, is somewhat small and short, a long way back in the woods, and backed up by a river that needs a lot of backtracking to get around with the trucks plus it's frozen ground only. A lot of issues to deal with and find out the wood is not there.

I have decided to go take a look at the job tomorrow as my other markets (pine) are getting tough right now. I don't have the time or desire to re cruise the job so I'll just have to get a general impression. But I hate to commit time and money to a job for this winter and find the wood is not there and to be honest too many jobs have been coming up short of wood.

You will be cutting trees 12" dbh in one spot and 24" just a few yards away.

Around here we see mostly 6-14" dbh but in all the stands both the 6" and 14" are exactly the same height or they are either dead or dying.

[Clark]

With a diameter of only 6" I can see the variation between the 8" trees that have 4 sticks and the 5" trees that have 3 sticks. With that said, I agree that that 3.5 stick average would seem to give a high estimate given the stand diameter.

Clark

[Gary_C]

I did go look at the job today. Drove 435 miles last I looked to find this. This is the best picture I took and a lesser view. The closest tree in the middle in the first picture is about 5" dbh.





Not real sure why this tract was offered but it is small wood. Not as much concerned with the sticks per tree as much as the small diameters. Not sure if the volume is there plus there is a lot of 2-4" stems (junk) that have to be cleared also.

It's not a good job. I just hope I can find something better.

[Ron Scott]

Looks like it needs to grow awhile, unless it is a biomass cut.

[Gary_C]

I talked to the forester that marked the sale and he said the stand was mature and needed cutting. His attitude was "it is what it is." The sale is a scaled sale so you only pay for what you take but with all the small stuff that must be felled, you are going to spend a lot of time for what you get.

It's now a kind of a last resort job if I can't find anything else.  :

And it's said to be a poor site so no biomass can be removed.

[Clark]

Who is putting that up for sale? I seriously doubt the credentials of a forester who makes claims like that.

Clark

[enigmaT120]

It looks like pre-commercial thinning.  I've started seeing trucks with little logs like that in the past few years but I don't know where they're going.  I make firewood out of mine.