Stihl 025 - bar and chain

Leever2000 · November 11, 2013, 07:28:08 AM

I use a Stihl 025 and over the past couple of weeks I have been having a problem with the bar and chain getting the proper amount of oil thus the chain gets dull etc... I have taken apart and cleaned and started the saw without bar and chain and can see oil coming out where it is supposed to. Never fails that as soon as the bar and chain are on insufficient oil. I have laid down a piece of cardboard and ran chainsaw to see if oil sprays out and notta thing. What is the problem? Thanks for the support - I am one of the many refugees from the Arborsite.

Leever2000 · November 11, 2013, 09:02:04 AM

Can the oil pump be the problem? My saw uses oil it is just not putting it on the bar and chain atleast not that I can see.

thecfarm · November 11, 2013, 09:20:44 AM

Leever2000,welcome to the forum. Does the chain go around the bar freely when you are cutting? Meaning it does not drag.When you let off the gas,the chain should still move some. It should not stop dead. Chain,bar cool to the touch,not hot?

Leever2000 · November 11, 2013, 11:21:32 AM

It does not move freely, it stops dead and the bar and chain are hot to the touch.

H 2 H · November 11, 2013, 11:43:31 AM

Quote from: Leever2000 on November 11, 2013, 11:21:32 AM
It does not move freely, it stops dead and the bar and chain are hot to the touch.

My MS 250's did that also at first

I changed the oil line and made the oil holes in the bar a little bigger

Leever2000 · November 11, 2013, 11:51:33 AM

I have had this saw for 20 years and have not has this problem until now. How hard is it to change the oil line and where is it? Thanks

H 2 H · November 11, 2013, 11:58:16 AM

Quote from: Leever2000 on November 11, 2013, 11:51:33 AM
I have had this saw for 20 years and have not has this problem until now. How hard is it to change the oil line and where is it? Thanks

Lines get hard over time and the filter can get plug over time

Empty the oil tank and put about inch of premix in it and shake the saw and dump the premix out then fill the saw with bar oil then see if that works

If that doesnt work it's about two hours taking it apart and replacing things

If it's 20 years old the pump could be pluged up you might have to take pump off and run premix thru that

Leever2000 · November 11, 2013, 01:26:27 PM

I already put about an inch of pre mix in and shook. I guess it is time to replace the tube and pump. I assume if I go to the length of replacing the tube, while I am there I will replace the pump. Does that make sense?

JohnG28 · November 11, 2013, 09:19:51 PM

How tight do you have the chain? Sounds like it could be too tight.

AKDoug · November 12, 2013, 01:44:41 AM

There is a higher volume pump available... 1123 640 3201 I've done several on customers' saws and they've been happy. Unfortunately it takes a special tool to install and most dealers are going to charge a half hour for the job.

Leever2000 · November 12, 2013, 07:52:42 AM

JohnG28 - I don't believe the chain is too tight. Enough slack to lift chain a little bit but not too much for it to come free.

AKDoug - I have heard of the higher volume pump for my saw, is that because this model (Stihl 025) after some age required more oil volume. It sounds like the engineers created the higher volume pump due to some known issues with the original pump. Either way is the special tool worth purchasing or should I take to shop and get it done?

joe_indi · November 12, 2013, 11:29:04 AM

Quote from: AKDoug on November 12, 2013, 01:44:41 AM
There is a higher volume pump available... 1123 640 3201 I've done several on customers' saws and they've been happy. Unfortunately it takes a special tool to install and most dealers are going to charge a half hour for the job.

This simple alternative was what a Stihl engineer showed me. No special tool needed to remove or install oil pumps for 017/170 to 025/250
You need the M5X35 screw that comes on the brake handle of most Stihl saws, on the starter side, 2 M5 nuts and a plate washer. Move the 2 nuts on the screw to the end of the thread, put in the washer, finger tighten the screw on the oil pump, after lifting up the oil pipe. Move the first nut down to seat the washer. Move the second nut down to lock the first nut. Use a pliers on the screw head to pull the oil pump out.Remove the screw from the old oil pump without disturbing the position of the nuts. Finger tighten it in the new oil pump. Tap the screw till the washer is flush with the saw body.Remove the screw and refit the oil pump.
But, before passing verdict on the oil pump, check the condition of the worm. If the clutch drum has a worn out needle seat, it will rock around enough to prevent the worm from engaging.
Here is a picture of the my oil pump remover:

joe_indi · November 12, 2013, 11:32:10 AM

Quote from: Leever2000 on November 12, 2013, 07:52:42 AM
JohnG28 - I don't believe the chain is too tight. Enough slack to lift chain a little bit but not too much for it to come free.

AKDoug - I have heard of the higher volume pump for my saw, is that because this model (Stihl 025) after some age required more oil volume. It sounds like the engineers created the higher volume pump due to some known issues with the original pump. Either way is the special tool worth purchasing or should I take to shop and get it done?

I think the larger volume pump is for when you use longer guidebars or 0.325 pitch sawchains.

Leever2000 · November 12, 2013, 12:04:05 PM

Joe-indi - Your explanation is great and very helpful especially the part when you talk about the worm. This all started when the needle seat was worn out and I had to remove and replace the needle seat. I had never been in that area of the saw before and thought there was alot of play. Still is a lot of play with the new needle bearing. If I understand correctly if the clutch drum has a lot of play the worm will not engage and no oil to the bar and chain?

Leever2000 · November 12, 2013, 01:35:47 PM

The clutch drum very much like a brake drum? The clutch drum on my saw is worn like a brake drum and thus sits over the clutch with some slop. Could my problem be as simple as replacing the clutch drum and possibly the clutch? All I know is that before I replaced the needle bearing the bar and chain were getting oil.

joe_indi · November 12, 2013, 08:14:31 PM

Quote from: Leever2000 on November 12, 2013, 12:04:05 PM
............. If I understand correctly if the clutch drum has a lot of play the worm will not engage and no oil to the bar and chain?

Exactly!. A change of clutch drum/spur sprocket and needle bearing should cure the problem.

SawTroll · November 12, 2013, 11:01:45 PM

Quote from: Leever2000 on November 11, 2013, 11:51:33 AM
I have had this saw for 20 years and have not has this problem until now. How hard is it to change the oil line and where is it? Thanks

I assume it isn't just about the oil hole in the bar being clogged up then?

How old is the bar, and how much use have it seen?

Quote from: Leever2000 on November 11, 2013, 07:28:08 AM
...... I have taken apart and cleaned and started the saw without bar and chain and can see oil coming out where it is supposed to. .....

Is the amount of oil coming out really normal?

Leever2000 · November 13, 2013, 07:56:16 AM

joe-indi
I will order parts and install the clutch drum/spur sprocket and needle bearing. Anything special I have to do when replacing. When the old clutch is removed and I can see the inerts, worm etc... I guess what I am trying to say is, while I am there should I replace/inspect/order anything else just in case? Thanks for the help and will let you know the outcome.

SawTroll
The oil hole is clear and the bar is just about brand new.

I will keep all posted on the outcome - Thanks Leever2000

joe_indi · November 13, 2013, 08:03:19 AM

Quote from: Leever2000 on November 13, 2013, 07:56:16 AM
Anything special I have to do when replacing. When the old clutch is removed and I can see the inerts, worm etc... I guess what I am trying to say is, while I am there should I replace/inspect/order anything else just in case?

If the clutch is worn it might be a good idea to replace it too.Ditto the worm.
When putting in the new parts grease the gear wheel of the oil pum, the crank shaft where the worm runs, the worm, and the needle bearing.

Leever2000 · November 13, 2013, 08:25:47 AM

Will do, thanks again

Leever2000 · November 16, 2013, 02:14:46 PM

joe-indi - I removed the clutch drum and clutch waiting for the the parts delivery and I was cleaning the area behind the clutch up and realized the real problem. Noticed one of the clips (1 of 3) to hold the clutch together missing, I found a piece it had tore up the area behind the clutch.I got some WD-40 and inserted spray straw in to the oil hole and sprayed. The WD-40 came out behind the clutch meaning that the piece of the clutch clip ripped up the area meaning the oil pump is working it is just pumping oil into the back of the clutch. Is this area repairable? I hope I explained well enough.

park ranger · November 17, 2013, 01:10:04 AM

I had a 025 that had an oil problem, the disk with the worm type gear had worn thin so the wire that sits in the notch in the clutch drum was not seated in, but just spinning around. There are two types of disks with the wire from what I can remember (a couple of years back). I ordered the wrong one first time. The problem with mine was the disk runs up against the saw case and my case wore out. Now my 025 sits outside by the mill collecting cob webs. Eric

AKDoug · November 17, 2013, 11:32:39 AM

Quote from: Leever2000 on November 16, 2013, 02:14:46 PM
joe-indi - I removed the clutch drum and clutch waiting for the the parts delivery and I was cleaning the area behind the clutch up and realized the real problem. Noticed one of the clips (1 of 3) to hold the clutch together missing, I found a piece it had tore up the area behind the clutch.I got some WD-40 and inserted spray straw in to the oil hole and sprayed. The WD-40 came out behind the clutch meaning that the piece of the clutch clip ripped up the area meaning the oil pump is working it is just pumping oil into the back of the clutch. Is this area repairable? I hope I explained well enough.

It might be repairable. Can you get a picture to post? You might be able to repair the worn out spot with epoxy.

Leever2000 · November 17, 2013, 02:28:52 PM

I took some pictures but I am unable to upload them. Anyways it looks pretty rough. What type of epoxy would you use? What about getting another engine case is it worth it? Any ideas welcome.

Leever2000 · November 17, 2013, 02:53:40 PM

I am leaning towards turning this saw into a project. Any opinions good/bad on a Poulan chain saw. I have only ever used Stihl and I am a little apprehensive but the price of the Poulan looked good.