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20" Stihl MS440 Magnum VS 20" Stihl MS 460 Magnum

Started by logger, April 03, 2005, 08:28:05 PM

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logger

Will a Stihl MS460 Magnum cut faster than a Stihl MS440 Magnum?  Even if they have 20" bars on them, and the same chains on them?  Thanks! 8) ;D
220 Poulan            Future Saws         
Stihl MS280             Jonsered CS2171              
Stihl MS440 Magnum Husky 575XP  
Stihl MS460 Magnum   Dolmar PS-7900
Husky 385xp            Stihl MS361  Stihl MS441 Magnum
Stihl 066 Magnum       Stihl MS660 Magnum

Kevin

The 460 having a larger engine and more weight should cut slightly faster than the smaller 440.

fishhuntcutwood

In a side by side race?  It should.   More hp means more ability to overcome the resistance of the wood.   I've ran both, but I've never ran the two side by side.  I've also never timed a cut.  I don't understand it when guys get into saying, "Yeah, my so and so cut it in 7. 64 seconds, and my other so and so cut it in 8.53."  Not knocking it, and although fun, and a good way to put it apples to apples, I guess I don't see that as a practical application.  I'd rather be able to say my so and so cut all darn day long, didn't kill my back, and never bogged down in what I put it into.  I know of the argument of faster cutting means less time cutting, but a half a second?  So yeah, a stock 460 should outcut a stock 440, as far as pure speed, but man, it would be close.  And I'd rather base my preferrence on a saw on it's weight and ability to bring a tree down, and then take it apart once it's down-ease of limbing, and bucking, etc.  My 361 "cuts faster" than my 460 when I'm limbing because I can maneuver it faster.  My 460 will cut faster when I'm in a 24" WRC.  It's got the hp to pull the chain, and not let the tree slow it down.  

Russ, you've run both of these saws, and I'd guess side by side.  Your thoughts...

Jeff
MS 200T
MS 361
044
440 Mag
460 Mag
056 MII
660 Mag

Firewood Farm

I agree with the others, the 460 should pull through the big stuff easier and faster, but at the end of the day, you may notice the 1 pound difference in weight more than the speed savings. You make the call!

Joe
If a man is in a forest and there's no woman to hear him, is he still wrong?

logger

Just asking.  Because I was talking to my dealer, and he said that they would almost be side by side.  He said that if you put a square cornered tooth on the 440 and a round cornered on the 460, then it all would depend on who was pushing on the saw.
220 Poulan            Future Saws         
Stihl MS280             Jonsered CS2171              
Stihl MS440 Magnum Husky 575XP  
Stihl MS460 Magnum   Dolmar PS-7900
Husky 385xp            Stihl MS361  Stihl MS441 Magnum
Stihl 066 Magnum       Stihl MS660 Magnum

fishhuntcutwood

They are very close saws indeed.  Saying that they'd cut so close with the different chains could almost be said about the 361 and the 460.  A less aggressive or dull chain makes a world of difference.  If you've got a 440, you'd have a hard time justifying getting the 460, and not jumping to the 650 or 660.

Jeff
MS 200T
MS 361
044
440 Mag
460 Mag
056 MII
660 Mag

OneWithWood

I use both an MS440 and an MS460.  The 460 definately has more grunt and weighs more.  I use the 440 for firewood, yardwork and limbing.  I use the 460 expressly for falling because that is when the grunt comes in handy and the weight is not a concern because it is not a constant activity.  I normally use a 25" bar on the 460 and a 20" bar on the 440.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

logger

Yea, but that 440 shouldn't be no slacker either!  You know you can turn them things to run 14,000 rpm, which is what me and the other loggers run.  It won't hurt the saw at all to do that!  Me and the other loggers like them to run that fast.  I know a guy, who told my dealer to tune his 440 to smoke them 460's and my dealer said okay.  My dealer tuned his saw to run 15,100 rpm, but he turned it down to 14,700, cause he thought that the flywheel would fly apart at that speed!  You don't want to race him!   :o ;D :D 8) :) ;)
220 Poulan            Future Saws         
Stihl MS280             Jonsered CS2171              
Stihl MS440 Magnum Husky 575XP  
Stihl MS460 Magnum   Dolmar PS-7900
Husky 385xp            Stihl MS361  Stihl MS441 Magnum
Stihl 066 Magnum       Stihl MS660 Magnum

fishhuntcutwood

I agree that the numbers in the manuals are references, and that it's up to a guy with a good ear and a feel for a saw's power band to tune it right, but I'd be very carefull arbitrarally taking a 440 up into those numbers.  You're getting into lean territory and if they were meant to go that fast just beacause they can,  then Stihl would list 15,000 as the WOT RPM.    The 440 should run just fine within it's established territory, and if you want performance like that of a 460...go buy a 460.

Just my opinion, and I ain't telling you how to run your saw, but a lean siezure or a failed big end ain't no fun.

Jeff
MS 200T
MS 361
044
440 Mag
460 Mag
056 MII
660 Mag

OneWithWood

Before I bought the 460 I used the 440 as my falling saw.  It performed well.  Another advantage of using the 460 is that the additional pound balances the additional weight of the longer bar and chain so it is actually less strenuous to use the 460 for falling.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

logger

Sorry, forgot to say that he put a different piston in it!  I have a 440, I love it! Thanks! 8) ;D
220 Poulan            Future Saws         
Stihl MS280             Jonsered CS2171              
Stihl MS440 Magnum Husky 575XP  
Stihl MS460 Magnum   Dolmar PS-7900
Husky 385xp            Stihl MS361  Stihl MS441 Magnum
Stihl 066 Magnum       Stihl MS660 Magnum

fishhuntcutwood

Quote from: logger on April 05, 2005, 10:18:16 PM
Sorry, forgot to say that he put a different piston in it!  I have a 440, I love it! Thanks! 8) ;D

OK, what'd I miss?  Are you saying a different piston will allow you to run those speeds?  I understand a lighter piston will eat up less hp, but that wouldn't be your limiting factor.
Jeff
MS 200T
MS 361
044
440 Mag
460 Mag
056 MII
660 Mag

logger

220 Poulan            Future Saws         
Stihl MS280             Jonsered CS2171              
Stihl MS440 Magnum Husky 575XP  
Stihl MS460 Magnum   Dolmar PS-7900
Husky 385xp            Stihl MS361  Stihl MS441 Magnum
Stihl 066 Magnum       Stihl MS660 Magnum

StihlDoc

Stroke is a physical dimension controlled by the offset of the crankpin vs. the center line of the crankshaft. Installing a different piston will not change the stroke. Note that there is only one style OEM piston available for an MS 440. The maximum recommended engine speed is 14,000 r.p.m. with 20" bar & chain. If you run speeds higher than this, you risk the possibility of failure to the lower connecting rod bearing. In general, the best engine power and efficiency for the MS 440 is found with the carburetor adjusted so the maximum no load engine speed with 20" bar & chain is approx. 13,500-13,800 r.p.m.

fishhuntcutwood

Quote from: StihlDoc on April 06, 2005, 10:49:05 PM
In general, the best engine power and efficiency for the MS 440 is found with the carburetor adjusted so the maximum no load engine speed with 20" bar & chain is approx. 13,500-13,800 r.p.m.

Thank you.  Couldn't agree more.

Jeff
MS 200T
MS 361
044
440 Mag
460 Mag
056 MII
660 Mag

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