just looking for information

[mad murdock]

Now it is an entirely different discussion to figure out whether or not to hire a lawyer or to represent yourself. And whether or not to proceed to court, or to settle outside of court. I honestly don't know whether or to what degree you need a lawyer, but it is a facet of this case that we could also discuss. As others have said, 11 acres of timber is no small potatoes, especially if it was clear-cut (or high-graded).  Depending on the quality of trees, the monetary value could be as much as $1,000 per acre or more, not counting your forester and/or legal costs. (or it could be a lot less)

I'd say a lot more than 1,000/acre of timber value, unless it was planted in the last 5 years. On my tree farm, my yield is between 20-30 mbf/acre, granted, I am on prime tree growing ground in the coastal mnts of Oregon, but even a southeastern hardwood stand should be at least 5-9 mbf/acre me thinks. Even if it is firewood at $75 a cord in log length on a landing, that would be more than $1,000/acre timber value, at least I would think so. WDH is right, getting a accurate and certifiable stand assesement is key, as well as the survey, and if the logger was cutting per a contract, a copy of his contract would be helpful, so you can see where he was supposed to cut, what he was paying for what, and maybe that will shed light on his claim that it was an "honest mistake". Personally I don't think it was, unless this logger is a
Serious fly by night, something smells bad in his story to my thinking!

[Okrafarmer]

Ah, yes, you're right. Could be a lot more.

[Ianab]

Ah, yes, you're right. Could be a lot more.

Locally it could be $11,000 for ONE tree 

OK, a pretty special tree, that would take a lot of paperwork to get permission to harvest, but it does happen.

[Claybraker]

Looking a little bit further down the road, while you're dealing with a Forester, this might be a good time to update or have a management plan prepared. Especially as it relates to the 11 acres that was cut.

Was it high graded? What kind of provisions for regeneration do you need to make? TSI work? Etc. Something else you might want to discuss with him/her.

[WDH]

It is quite possible that it was not intentional.  11 acres is a lot, but a fellerbuncher can cut that much pretty quick. 

If you could prove that it was intentional, then you could go the criminal trespass route and raise the stakes.

[Okrafarmer]

Especially if one of his men knew it and is willing to testify. I would think, that in order to find that out, a police investigation would have to be made, though I'm not sure about that.

Ianab, not too many $11,000 trees around here. Maybe in California.

[beenthere]

When Randy1965 started this thread, it was his first post.
Doesn't look like he has been getting all the good information being passed on to him. That is sad.

Hope he comes back for the help he could be getting.

[Jeff]

Its only been two days. I know a lot of people that only check their email and stuff once a week.

[lumberjack48]

We were logging on a Federal block, the south line was marked with blue, meaning the Feds didn't own the joining land. We were logging the south end, cutting a beautiful patch of Jack pine, 12 to 20" on the stump, 60 to 80' tall. I saw a Reservation crew surveying the land next to us. So now i knew the land south of the blue line was Reservation land. I told the crew, we'd better ht it, jokily, before the Native Americans shut us down for cutting their stumpage.
  It wasn't an hour after i said it, 4 guys walked up to me and told me to shut it down [NOW] your cutting on Reservation land. We were told to park equipment until told different, i couldn't believe this was happing. They called the federal, they were there in about 20 minutes, arms were waving, fingers pointing, it was quit a powwow. They were back the next day with a crew, measuring every stump and surveying a new line with the Federal surveyors.
Then they talked to me, it was a surveying mistake, that i wasn't stealing their stumpage. I was able to move on the other end of the block, it was safe to log there.
  A Ranger came out two days later, he told me the Reservation charged them triple stumpage, they were happy to pay that to settle it, with out any court procedures. All of this had no reflect back on me, but it was scary.

[240b]

Had same experience as Lumberjack48. Bought timber sale from forester, all marked wood. After unit was cut but sale was still on going the abutter had their land surveyed for subdivision.(totally unrelated to timber sale)
It was what the survey crew called "a wandering line"(old barb wire fence). The first thing the surveyor told me was don't worry. You just bought the wood and the contract (which I had in truck) put all the liability on the sellers. In the end the landowners swapped some similar land (uncut) with each other. Never did hear anything else about it.  My rule is to speak with the abutters regardless of what the seller tells me. Some jobs with hostile neighbors are just not worth the risk of doing.
     Now, one of my neighbors, not only had their timber cut, but the mill (yes, a sawmill did this) sold the land to somebody else. That was a mess. Talk about a parade of foresters and surveyors tramping around the neighborhood. In the end the rightful owner lost half HIS land and the mill owner settled out of court with the parties. He knew he was screwed. The whole thing had something to do with adverse possession. I was pretty steamed for awhile, the survey crews cut sight lines across my land, though my maple regen and were pretty thoughtless about being on someone elses property.Which they have a right to, but how about being courteous to people. Thats why landowners and any one else working on any kind of property needs to KNOW where they are at.

[Okrafarmer]

We've had it come up in an urban / suburban setting where we were taking trees down for people. Once a wild lady came up to us, flabergasting about how her neighbor (who had us do the work) didn't know where the line was, and we were cutting down her trees. We stopped, found the owner, and he said, no they are definitely his trees, and he got out the deed record and showed her that he did indeed own that little patch of land. She was embarrassed that she had acted out. He told us later that it was not the first little issue he had had with her.  :-\

[Okrafarmer]

When Randy1965 started this thread, it was his first post.
Doesn't look like he has been getting all the good information being passed on to him. That is sad.

Hope he comes back for the help he could be getting.

He may be one of the people who just likes to read and doesn't say a whole lot. I've found there are quite a few of those people hanging around the Forum from time to time. We've given him some good info, and maybe he's out there running with it.

[Okrafarmer]

Other people are interested though, I checked just now, and two unregistered guests are looking at this thread along with me at the moment.

A lot of people read these things and don't comment, many don't even register.  ;)

[redprospector]

Its only been two days. I know a lot of people that only check their email and stuff once a week.

I didn't realize that you knew me personally.  :D  I only check my regular mail once a week, or so. Unless I'm expecting a check.

Andy

[Jeff]

Urban trees are a different animal so to speak in value to a woods tree when it comes to timber theft or accidental cutting or intentional removal. In an Urban setting, you may get into landscape value. With landscape value, the value may be equal to what it would take to replace what was taken. For example, what do you think it would take to put a 40 foot 40 year old landscape specimen back? Or a whole row of them?  You might be talking tens of thousands when it comes to that.

[Okrafarmer]

You're absolutely right, Jeff. And you sure don't want to cut a lawyer's tree down by accident! 

Or a police officer, judge, or city council member.  >:(

[WDH]

Boundary line agreements are a good idea if there is any doubt about where the property line is.  It is a simple letter signed by both parties that they are agreeing on where the line is in relation to a timber harvest.  Many times it is only a flagged line.  Simple to do, and if an issue arises, you know it before any trees are felled.