Resawing Pine Beams what am I doing wrong

Finn1903 · July 03, 2015, 10:04:01 PM

I picked up a job to resaw 40 old pine beams to 3/4". The beams are roughly 8x10x16, some are solid as a rock and others have a fair amount to rot.
The first "trial" went ok, after hitting metal on the first pass and scanning the rest I was able to cut it in 15 minutes.
Today I got started not the remaining 39 beams and after 2.5 hours I only managed to cut 4. What am I doing wrong here?
Two problems I see, sap build up on the blade and the blade lasting for 1 beam (if I didn't hit metal or the sap didn't cake up to much).
To try to cut down on the sap I was running a combination of dawn dish soap, automatic dishwashing detergent, simple green and a shot of orange multipurpose cleaner. A combination of all those really didn't work so well and I ended up with more wet sawdust in the drive side discharge adding to the buildup of sap on the blade and wheels.
I am cutting with 10 degree 1-1/4 WM blades and these were done after 1 beam, if I tried to push for a few more cuts in the next beam I would end up with a wavy cut. Is there another blade that would work better?
Any feedback would be helpful, pretty frustrated. I figured this job would be a little challenging, but was not expecting this.

pineywoods · July 03, 2015, 10:21:38 PM

Yer doing nothing wrong, just don't have the right tools. Woodmizer makes a special band with stellite teeth for that kind of sawing. Not cheap, but they will do the job. Old pine beams most likely longleaf pine. Lots of pitch. If you are getting buildup on the blade, may have to resort to a bit of diesel to keep the blade clean..I tied a felt wick to the outboard guide frame so that it rubbed on the blade, soaked it with diesel..

woodhick · July 04, 2015, 05:32:09 AM

I would use a 4* band to resaw them with personally. I have better luck in dry hard wood with the 4*'s than 9*. When I was resawing dry timbers for a local timber framer on a constant basis a few years back the only blades I could get good run time out of was bi-metal. Pricey but they would run longer than regualr bands. I did not have a pitch problem though, so your milage may be different. I was running lennox woodmaster B bands. Since I dont do that anymore I just run Woodmizer bands. Hope this helps.
Woodhick

kelLOGg · July 04, 2015, 07:05:37 AM

Finn,

I'm not far from you at all. If you want to see how my double side blade wipe works you are welcome. (It is a diesel wipe pretty much like Piney described.) Or check out my gallery. I have cut old pine beams from Durham's old tobacco warehouses pretty successfully.

Bob

slider · July 04, 2015, 08:19:59 AM

I have run diesel in my lubmizer.You just need to turn the pulse way down so you don"t throw the band off the belts.If you are in cotton country stop by the john deere shop and try some spindle cleaner.It's a form of soap and not as messy as diesel.their generic brand is cheaper and works just as well.

Finn1903 · July 14, 2015, 11:01:11 PM

I had a little more success with the beams. Today a pack of 5 bimetal 1-1/2 0.050 10 degree blades came in from WM. I also tried running pine sol and had a garden sprayer with diluted krud kutter degreaser/cleaner to keep down the sap buildup
The pine sol really helped keep down the sap. The bimetal blades went through the first two great, but I was getting wavy cuts on the third beam. I think the wavy cuts were from the inboard blade guide coming loose. Tomorrow I'll go through a quick alignment and check my drive belt tension and hope to be sailing through the beams.
On a side note, the guy said he had the beams gone through with a metal detector and all the metal removed. I am scanning and finding metal in every beam and probably spent 4 hours pulling metal so far. What is a fair way to handle this with the customer? I am a sawyer billing at an hourly rate, not a general laborer nail puller, but I am having to scan each log and dig out all sorts of metal. Do I bill my time under the mill time?

scsmith42 · July 14, 2015, 11:20:40 PM

Quote from: Finn1903 on July 14, 2015, 11:01:11 PM
On a side note, the guy said he had the beams gone through with a metal detector and all the metal removed. I am scanning and finding metal in every beam and probably spent 4 hours pulling metal so far. What is a fair way to handle this with the customer? I am a sawyer billing at an hourly rate, not a general laborer nail puller, but I am having to scan each log and dig out all sorts of metal. Do I bill my time under the mill time?

Absolutely you should be charging the customer an hourly rate for scanning and digging out the metal, as well as blade strike costs.

Ljohnsaw · July 15, 2015, 01:07:16 AM

Quote from: scsmith42 on July 14, 2015, 11:20:40 PM
Quote from: Finn1903 on July 14, 2015, 11:01:11 PM
On a side note, the guy said he had the beams gone through with a metal detector and all the metal removed. I am scanning and finding metal in every beam and probably spent 4 hours pulling metal so far. What is a fair way to handle this with the customer? I am a sawyer billing at an hourly rate, not a general laborer nail puller, but I am having to scan each log and dig out all sorts of metal. Do I bill my time under the mill time?

Absolutely you should be charging the customer an hourly rate for scanning and digging out the metal, as well as blade strike costs.

BUT... I would call your customer and let him know that you are finding (lots?) of metal and see if he wants to re-scan and remove himself.

Nomad · July 15, 2015, 06:56:53 AM

Quote from: ljohnsaw on July 15, 2015, 01:07:16 AM
Quote from: scsmith42 on July 14, 2015, 11:20:40 PM
Quote from: Finn1903 on July 14, 2015, 11:01:11 PM
On a side note, the guy said he had the beams gone through with a metal detector and all the metal removed. I am scanning and finding metal in every beam and probably spent 4 hours pulling metal so far. What is a fair way to handle this with the customer? I am a sawyer billing at an hourly rate, not a general laborer nail puller, but I am having to scan each log and dig out all sorts of metal. Do I bill my time under the mill time?

Absolutely you should be charging the customer an hourly rate for scanning and digging out the metal, as well as blade strike costs.
BUT... I would call your customer and let him know that you are finding (lots?) of metal and see if he wants to re-scan and remove himself.

I agree with both. It's not your fault you're spending so much time digging out metal. But it's not fair to the customer if you don't give him a chance to rectify the situation himself, either.

terrifictimbersllc · July 15, 2015, 07:25:20 AM

I resaw a lot of old factory beams mostly pine and some oak, for a company that reclaims these and re-sells the lumber. Always use 4 degree WM 1-1/4/0.045". Essential to keep the blade clean I use cascade in water with the lubemizer full on. Very good results. Once in a while the pine is so waxy, to the point of looking like a candlestick, and there is some buildup have to run the blade with lube on till it cleans up, before making another cut.

Magicman · July 15, 2015, 07:50:45 AM

Customer communication is essential.

That applies to this and all other sawing situations.

Finn1903 · July 15, 2015, 10:52:44 PM

I talked with the customer this morning, let him know how the bimetals worked and went over where were are at on costs and estimate to complete. He said we are still within budget and keep going.
Back to cutting and more issues

On the real pitchy ones, the wet sawdust started caking in the drive side, that did not help keeping the pitch build up down. More of a balance between the amount of lube water and pitch buildup, not just full wide open.
I found out that some of the dowel holes in the be beams have been filled with dirt with some portland in it and that really works over the bimetal blades. Added another step to the prep, punch out the holes and run blower over the beam and blow out the holes.
The bimetals pretty much lasted 3x longer than the double hards, cost was about 3x more. Just saving the down time of changing a blade.
I am thinking of ordering a box of turbo 7's tomorrow to knock out the job. These were another suggestion to help cut through the pitch dense beams. Any suggestions?

Finn1903 · July 19, 2015, 10:55:43 PM

Finally rolling on resawing these beams. The WM 7/39 blades were the trick. I found that I needed to crank the speed up for them to cut well, which is good because I need to get this job done. So far so good.
The 7/39s last about as long as the bimetal 10 degree blades, except when you hit metal. I burnt the teeth down on two of them in a broken bolt I missed with the scanner. Figured out to scan the log again after pulling metal, there could be more then one piece in the same location. :laugh:
I added dawn dish soap to go along with the pine sol in the blade water. Minimal pitch build up so far, but I have not run across a real pitching one yet.

woodmills1 · July 20, 2015, 06:50:37 PM

BEAM cutting........always by the hour with a generous blade allowance pre paid for.

Solomon · July 20, 2015, 11:38:57 PM

I use diesel fuel in my drip system period. I do have steel band wheels without any rubber tires or other matieral to get disolved by the fuel.
I do not often dicuss this topic on this site because I generally receive a cold reception over using diesel fuel. I suppose we have a lot of enviornmentalist tree huggers on this site.
I run a Logmaster LM4 using a 229 inch 1 1/2 x 7/8 12* pitch Munkfor blade.
I have cut many reclaimed beams that were loaded with sap and never had any problems with pitch on the blade.
I always get good straight boards and expierence no problems with rising or diving blade behavior.
I frequently cut the green Pressure Treated Pilon, also with very positive results.
If you're using an 1 1/4 or smaller blade you will have to slow your feed speed down.
Smaller blades don't have the beam strength needed to push them fast through reclaimed beams. Most pine gets a lot harder as it ages.
You should expect to change blades more frequently when you're cutting reclaimed timbers of any kind. Price the fact into the next simillar job.
If you can get yourself a set of steel band wheels and step up to an 1 1/2 inh blade, And a hydraulic tentioner, you will eliminate your problem forever.

Solomon · July 20, 2015, 11:42:35 PM

Diesel Fuel, Diesel Fuel , Diesel Fuel in your drip system !!!!!!!!!

Magicman · July 21, 2015, 08:53:21 AM

Quote from: Solomon on July 20, 2015, 11:38:57 PMI do not often dicuss this topic on this site because I generally receive a cold reception over using diesel fuel. I suppose we have a lot of enviornmentalist tree huggers on this site.

I have not seen that reaction to the use of diesel as a blade cleaner/lube. ???

Solomon · July 21, 2015, 10:52:45 AM

I've been ridiculed a couple of times over it MM.
I think some folks get carried away with environmental worries.
Now don't misunderstand me,
I am NOT in support of treating the Earth like a Toilet.
However, I'm not going to concern myself with losing a pint or two of fuel on the ground.
If it were 5 gallons I would enact measures to contain it and use it to start my fire pile
Waste not want not.
Everything to moderation.
It seem that in this day and time there's always somebody telling us , " You can't solve your problem because you might drop some poop on the ground".
There was a time when common sense took precedent, men were men, women were women, we stood for what was right, accomplished great feats, built great big things, landed on the moon and we didn't scare so easy.
Food for thought for all my Brethern out there.
When in the course of human events.........

deadfall · July 21, 2015, 12:00:07 PM

I could be seen as an environmentalist tree hugger. That said, we all have our own way to make in our own perceived worlds. Let's hope we can live, and truly let live. There are infinite ways to see everything. A willingness to see things in new ways, all the time, will give us all a better chance to enjoy this human life. I spill a little diesel now and again. My mill has rubber wheels, so what I spray on my blades is moot in this question. Do what you do and don't get caught, unless you catch yourself. The questions are more important than the answers. Enjoy yourself.