Question about timber framing chisels

[cib]

I'm a blacksmith/bladesmith hobbyist and I'm wanting to make my slicks and chisels. I'm curious about the overall thickness of the chisels and slicks. I know the width from Jim's post about tools but how thick are they, this will let me know the steel I need to get to work with. I'm guessing 1/4" thick but not sure.

[AlaskaLes]

I'm just getting geared up for this and I don't have many to reference.
However, I bought a few nice used tools from Jim Rogers last year and the slick is about 1/4" thick X 2" wide X 6" long...plus the socket at about 2" long.
The Framing chisel is 2" wide X ~8" long X Beveled thickness from almost 1/2" thick near the socket, down to 1/4" at the grind.  Both of these are old American steel and after a visit with my Tormek, they are Brutally sharp!!
HTH, Les

[cib]

Thanks. That gives me a good starting point.

[Brad_bb]

Chisels are in the 1/4 inch range but are not consistent.  They taper in two directions, may be slightly conical on top.  The Antique chisels are a hard steel and a softer cast steel forge welded together.  The hard steel by itself would be too brittle and break, the softer cast on top helps absorb shock.

New Barr chisels are one steel throughout I believe.
Slicks are in the 1.8 inch range and taper to thicker at the back.  Best bet is to acquire some good examples to get a good feel for them, and decide if you're going to make them like the old ones (which I prefer) or like the newer Barr chisels.

[cib]

My intention is to make them the old way. Forge welding the tool steel to old wrought iron. It's cheaper that way due to the steel for the core isn't cheap. Though for companies it is cheaper due to labor costs to make them out one solid piece and less manual labor work.

[Dave Shepard]

I don't think the old chisels use cast steel as the top, it's wrought iron. If it was cast steel, then it would harden during the best treatment process, but it doesn't, you can file it easily. When you see cast steel stamped on a chisel, that's the steel used to make the cutting edge.

Barr chisels are very high quality construction, but are poorly designed for timber framing. You would think that for the money, they could splurge an extra ten cents worth of locust and give you a handle big enough to hang on to, among other complaints.

[OliverH_timberF]

I would agree, ¼" with a taper. The big thing for me and the guys in the shop is chisel length. Barr and other companies make chisels to short. We get the robert sorby framing chisel not the bevel-edge framing chisel. The framing chisel has a nice long 10-½ " blade and 9" handle. We grind a bevel-edge our self (this is a pain) let us know how you're doing with the forging. not sure about hardness, I might know someone with a rockwell hardness tester if so ill get a reading on the some chisels as i am sure you could use this info.

[cib]

So those chisels are a good 19 inches long?

The hardness information would be great but please don't put yourself out for me. I'm debating on a full tang style or a socket. I like a full tang but socket would be lighter and some guys just prefer them.

I would agree, ¼" with a taper. The big thing for me and the guys in the shop is chisel length. Barr and other companies make chisels to short. We get the robert sorby framing chisel not the bevel-edge framing chisel. The framing chisel has a nice long 10-½ " blade and 9" handle. We grind a bevel-edge our self (this is a pain) let us know how you're doing with the forging. not sure about hardness, I might know someone with a rockwell hardness tester if so ill get a reading on the some chisels as i am sure you could use this info.

[Dave Shepard]

A good framing chisel is definitely 18 inches long or so. The hardness should probably be around 58 Rockwell. The Japanese tools can be closer to 62, but their construction is different.

[Roger Nair]

Cib, I have a number of preferences for framing chisels that would be typified by vintage laminated chisels.

1. Taper, as noted above.

2. Taper in width by about 4/100 from edge to heel.  Lessens jamming against mortise walls.

3. Belly in chisel body to enable paring cutting and a counter force against digging in while heavy driving.  Chisel only needs 3 to 4 inches of flat from edge.

4. Socket instead of tang, longer the socket the better.  Do not epoxy the handle, enable removal of handle by tapping on socket, so a paring handle can be mounted.

5. Steel ring on handle, no leather caps etc.

[cib]

Wow thanks for the information that will help a ton.

[Mad Professor]

While we are on the topic what do members have for traditional chisels/makers?

All mine are old refurbished, can't say I remember all the makers marks, some don't have marks but are fine tools. Some are Barton Whitherby Ohio Tool Greenlee Providence Tool, some are from Ct can't remember whose, would have to look them over for the marks?

All are forge welded laminated and take a nice edge.  Most have the top face beveled or rounded, all are socketed.  Some still need new wood handles and/or striking rings.

Were all rings always iron? Was brass ever used?

Anybody have a hardness tester and some old chisels to check the metals?

[Dave Shepard]

I have four Swan, two Witherby, a Globe, an Underhill, an A. J. Holmen, and a few blacksmith made.

[Roger Nair]

Dave and Prof, I have some of the above, I can add to the list Stowe and Wilcox, Peck Stowe and Wilcox and finally Pexto, other makers White, Beatty, Penfield, Douglass (Douglass was a successor of Underhill) and Winstead (brand associated with Witherby) and some unmarked or unreadable.

I have one oversized Pexto with a rosewood handle and brass ring that has been distorted.  Also have a White solid steel long body mill chisel with a thick brass ring.

I do not have ready links to old catalogs but some tool makers like White and Witherby made framing chisels with solid steel bodies at a premium price.