so without a hydraulic turner, and a tree to big to turn with a cant hook, either bc of diameter, or just shear weight. what have people used to turn logs, especially if once the log is on the bed, the wind crack isn't lined up parallel to the blade/bed?
the other day when i went to get a pecan, i needed to roll the log to get it off my chain so i could bind the logs down for transport. I took my rubbing choker and placed the nub and bell on the back side, wedged the front side and started winching till it picked the log up enough to get my chain out.
asking because I'm going to run into this issue once i get my mill build, and i won't be putting a turner on it just yet, and also don't want to potentially mar up the live edge during turning, especially using something like the WM's freddy kruger finger style turner. plus both pecans weigh over 5000# and my tractor cant do much more, than just be a 10,000# anchor.
When I want to turn a cant and not mar it up or even turn a big log, I use my SkyTrak and a nylon strap/tow rope. I have one that is a very big continuous loop made from about a 20' strap. I put it around the log so it cinches underneath. Then I lift while pulling away from the log stop. That allows it to roll towards the stop. I use it to support most of the weight so it doesn't slam down on the bed.
I now have a second, bigger, cant hook and plan to try a two-man, two-hook turn to see how that goes.
You might modify something like what I use with a tow strap.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13036/Q_saw_red_oak_008.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1340063816)
Whatever you do you can not do without a couple of these: Cant Hooks - LogRite Tools LLC (https://logrite.com/store/Category/Cant-Hooks)
I have short woodmizer hook, but also homemade 6 foot hook made by former member here, gfadvm. It probably wouldn't do much with a 5000lb log though. I plan to have a single hook on a chain to be able to turn logs on my mill with the tractor. Should be able to turn logs that I can't necessarily lift.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0283.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1267041249)
I regularly use these "Magic Hooks" that were repurposed from broken logging tongs.
This summer I had some 30 inch pine logs on my manual Baker sawmill. To turn those logs **easily** I put one or two wedges on the mill cross members and use a 4 ft log rite. The logs easily turn on the metal cross members and the wedges hold them in place.
Some blocking across the mill frame parallel to the log and a pair of good rigging bars levering off the block will inch it around. May have to scoot the log away from the backstops then roll towards them with the bars and repeat.
Or come in from the backstop side with your loader, hook a chain over the the center of the log, then curl back to parbuckle in place against the backstops. If you can do so gently and without harm to mill or machine, let the front tires park against the mill frame so you dont jar it out of alignment or off any footings etc. Just a bit more stabilization.
What ljohnsaw said!
I thought about mounting an electric winch with a hook, then mount it to my carriage just to roll the log. But not sure its a good idea. Especially since I want something to be able to roll logs up the ramps to.
I have "reverse" turned a big/heavy log using a chain, Magic Hook, and log clamp.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0565.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1321929784)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0566.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1321929786)
When the clamp moved in the log was reverse turned against the side supports. Works like a charm. ;)
Charles, Your tractor CAN turn those 5,000 pound logs. Remember, it doesn't have to lift the logs, it just needs to roll them against the backstops. Your tractor will handle that with ease. The other posters have provided different rigging suggestions and they all work great. I think the J hook is the least reliable option because it doesn't always bite into the log well enough...but they work.
You very obviously have never used one.
Wonder if logrite will sell just the hook? That would be nice on the end of a cable
Yes: Replacement Hooks - LogRite Tools LLC (https://logrite.com/store/Item/replacement-hooks)
You beat me to MM...
Herb
Sweet, you guys are awesome. Thanx.
Quote from: Magicman on September 10, 2018, 02:04:18 PMYou very obviously have never used one.
MM, your condescension seems inappropriate on this forum. Actually, A "J" hook is what I always use to turn the big ones, and they can have trouble biting into the wood.
Quote from: Crusarius on September 10, 2018, 02:14:19 PMWonder if Logrite will sell just the hook? That would be nice on the end of a cable
Crusarius, I just looked at my Logrite Cant Hooks and I think their hooks would work great on the end of a cable. You may have to hammer the point into the log but they look thick enough to do the job. Get their longest hook.
My apology to you if my words seemed harsh or were misinterpreted. The backside of my hooks are shiny where they always get a rap or two with my hatchet before any load is applied. The above pictures happened to be taken before such action took place.
I said: " Works like a charm."
You stated: "I think the J hook is the least reliable option because it doesn't always bite into the log well enough...but they work."
I agree with you that "they work" but I fail to agree with you that they are in any way "unreliable".
I do not see "condescending" but I do see "disagreeing".
Quote from: charles mann on September 10, 2018, 01:50:04 AMand also don't want to potentially mar up the live edge during turning
Sounds like ljohnsaw's tow strap ls the best answer for this purpose.
The non marring log turner could be in demand with all the slab making going on, I'm thinking some sort of conveyer belts arranged in a V shape that would push up the log and turn it or a pair of wheels and tires.
Three turns around the log with a tow strap or any 2" nylon strap will turn any log. Keep a little tension on the bitter end of the strap.
I'll just throw this out there and I know it could start a ruckus, but there's very little difference between pulling UP on the strap and pulling SIDEWAYS on the strap. pull_smiley
Using any or all the ways mentioned above will get the job done. I think it's good to have all of these in your tool box and then choose one to fit the circumstance.
I like the multi-wraps with a strap idea. smiley_idea No marring and the tension should prevent it from slipping. smiley_thumbsup
My situation is that unless the landowner has a tractor/FEL, I have to depend upon using whatever turning that I can muster out of the sawmill's hydraulics.
Hilltop, i like that pair of wheels thing. Set them up like a toe board a few bunk rails apart from each other. Hydro the wheel boards up and turn the log, either by hand or by hydro.
Quote from: Hilltop366 on September 10, 2018, 07:51:25 PM
Quote from: charles mann on September 10, 2018, 01:50:04 AMand also don't want to potentially mar up the live edge during turning
Sounds like ljohnsaw's tow strap ls the best answer for this purpose.
The non marring log turner could be in demand with all the slab making going on, I'm thinking some sort of conveyer belts arranged in a V shape that would push up the log and turn it or a pair of wheels and tires.
Instead of a chain or claw, like you said, replace chain and sprokets with dead rollers and use some conveyor belting that has enogh distance between the roller, to allow the wt. of the log to provide its own grip on the rubber, and turn the log, using the chain motor.
The chain turners I have seen seem to turn the log against the back stops, I'm thinking the backstops will dig into the log or the log will try to climb the backstop which got me to thinking about the V shape and then the wheels.
I think the wheel idea would be the easiest to make as it could be done with off the shelf or scrapyard parts.
I guess one could weld up the spider gears in a rear differential and use the entire rear axel along with a set of idler wheels (4 wheels in total), put your power to the input shaft (this also gives you a gear reduction) to make the wheels turn
Will it work? I guess we won't know until someone tries it.
Yall very creative...but after 7 years running a manual mill, I finally got smart and bought an lt40...hasent let me down yet, and with a little finesse you can turn a big one without marring it up too bad using the claw and 2 plane clamp
Quote from: Hilltop366 on September 11, 2018, 06:58:25 PM
The chain turners I have seen seem to turn the log against the back stops, I'm thinking the backstops will dig into the log or the log will try to climb the backstop which got me to thinking about the V shape and then the wheels.
One idea that I had was to slide a couple longer tubes over the backstops temporarily while turning the log so that it doesn't bite on the top of the stops. Feasible?
I use two 2" pipe 30" long slip over my back stops for turning ugly/ big logs. :D :D ;D
Quote from: jb616 on September 11, 2018, 09:02:57 PM
Quote from: Hilltop366 on September 11, 2018, 06:58:25 PM
The chain turners I have seen seem to turn the log against the back stops, I'm thinking the backstops will dig into the log or the log will try to climb the backstop which got me to thinking about the V shape and then the wheels.
One idea that I had was to slide a couple longer tubes over the backstops temporarily while turning the log so that it doesn't bite on the top of the stops. Feasible?
Been there done that, I used 2" pvc. Had to heat it up a little to get it to fit over the stops of the lt15. Very slick for turning...the pvc
Before I had a log turner I would drive a skid steer right up on the log deck to turn big logs using a swamp hook to grab the log. Problem was there could only be one log on the deck.
charles what size is a 5000 lbs log?? better yet where the heck do you find them???
Quote from: logman 219 on September 12, 2018, 11:06:10 AM
charles what size is a 5000 lbs log?? better yet where the heck do you find them???
Iv got a pecan that between 2 logs, weighed 12,300 lbs. iv even got the scale tickets for those logs.
iv been sawing hardwood lumber to use in my cabinet shop for 18 years, iv picked up some big logs in that time!! iv never seen a log that size before ! but iam in indiana not tex.
In July I was contacted by a gentleman wanting a big poplar milled into slabs. He sent measurement and just for fun I used the Log Weight calculator in the Tool Box. The log was 12' long and 50" on the small end. The calculated weight was over 7,500 pounds.
I had to pass on the job because I don't have any way to deal with a log that size.
But we always have to be careful and ask questions when folks start giving measurements over the telephone. It's amazing how many people do not know the difference between diameter and circumference. :o I often have to ask; across the end or around the log?
Build a 4 tire roller cradle out of lawn tractor front tires so that it mimics the bed of a rosser head debarker. Mount them on 4 pedestals. A single cylinder could press a wedge shape in and out to raise this apparatus under the mill a few inches, lifting the log or cant so that the log is now on a stationary roller, kinda like a car on a chassis dyno. Picture an upside down 4 caster stool for the device.
Now take your old hank of rope and tie it around the end of your favorite rigging bar/pipe/ cant handle etc. Make 3 capstan turns around the log with the rope tail and tie it back to the handle. Theres your non-marring mega log turner.
For those with fixed backstops you could put basic caster up on the top of the posts.. Maybe a drop in sleeve or quick clamp on configuration. The pineywoods turner with a pneumatic tire option may also assist. If not for friction any log is happy to turn. Heck they love rolling right down a hill for me whenever i dont want em to. So, just reduce the friction on your mill bed and backstops.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0603171347a-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1536777131)
Like a big filter wrench.
Quote from: logman 219 on September 12, 2018, 01:01:03 PM
iv been sawing hardwood lumber to use in my cabinet shop for 18 years, iv picked up some big logs in that time!! iv never seen a log that size before ! but iam in indiana not tex.
On pg 4,
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=102281.60 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=102281.60)
the log suspended from my arch with the dog standing at the back of my trailer is rite close to 3000#, going off what my tractor can lift. The forks will roll back enough to get it off the ground a few inches, but my lift arms will not pick it up any further than what my fork roll will do.
I do have my arms pinned in the 3000# holes. Will move them to the 3500# holes and see if it ill pick it up via lift arms.
If it wont, then kubota is full of poo and need to fix their advertisements.
The log being loaded and the log with my saw dawged into it was the last pecan, which was a live until a few months ago. That is the load i scaled.
The pecan with my wife standing by it was heavy enough to stretch the D-ring, pictured below the pic with my wife. The ring has a wll of i think 10,000 or 12,000#. An unused ring is pictured beside the stretched ring for comparison to the amount of stretch.
I upgraded to a wll of 15,000# and no stretching yet.
A farm (handy man) jack with a chain, or strap will turn any log. And do it cheap.
Quote from: Crusarius on September 10, 2018, 08:42:45 AM
I thought about mounting an electric winch with a hook, then mount it to my carriage just to roll the log. But not sure its a good idea. Especially since I want something to be able to roll logs up the ramps to.
That is exactly what I do in reply #2.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13036/Q_saw_red_oak_003.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1340062661)
I have my shade tree mill set the same with a wench mounted use it to roll up the ramp and to turn works good.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44432/mill.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1534774947)
BW.. our systems look similar. It surely saves work but I do walk around the mill a lot. A hydraulic mill would save me a lot of walking time but most times I don't think it would save me a lot of effort. Sometimes I have to slide a big log without rotating it - that's where most of my effort is expended.
Bob
Yes there is some walking around but I just could not afford hydraulic and it works good. I had pecan log that was 35" x 10' that it took some doing. I had to use my tractor with forks to help the wench roll the log. I only have a 3 ton wench but for most of what I do work good.
Even with hydraulics, (too) big logs can be a challenge.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0716.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1328750682)
Cypress.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0717.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1328750684)
After Bibby'ing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1162_28Small29.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1347823011)
That's it in the background. :o
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN1166_28Small29.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1347823016)
Bibby'ed down but still a mouthful.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0326.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1267041255)
42" Water Oak.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0327.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1267041256)
Bibby'ed down to size.
Turning all of these monsters took both the claw turner and the log clamp working in tandem.
My mill see that coming it would try to hid behind the tree ;D that a big one.
I have had an idea for log turning. Two trailer hubs perpendicular to the tracks. With some wheels. Side by side. Lifted with a hydraulic car jack. You make two of those. And you can also power the wheels. A bit like the v shaped chain log turners.
Zero turn wheel motors. They have a load-bearing keyed taper shaft and usually a 5 on 4.5 hub. often have a brake. They could be your turner and toe board if hydraulically independant.
Lesco mowers and toro ground master definitely had them. Probably most fairway mowers. Very stout.