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Log turning

Started by charles mann, September 10, 2018, 01:50:04 AM

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charles mann

so without a hydraulic turner, and a tree to big to turn with a cant hook, either bc of diameter, or just shear weight. what have people used to turn logs, especially if once the log is on the bed, the wind crack isn't lined up parallel to the blade/bed?

the other day when i went to get a pecan, i needed to roll the log to get it off my chain so i could bind the logs down for transport. I took my rubbing choker and placed the nub and bell on the back side, wedged the front side and started winching till it picked the log up enough to get my chain out.

asking because I'm going to run into this issue once i get my mill build, and i won't be putting a turner on it just yet, and also don't want to potentially mar up the live edge during turning, especially using something like the WM's freddy kruger finger style turner. plus both pecans weigh over 5000# and my tractor cant do much more, than just be a 10,000# anchor.
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Ljohnsaw

When I want to turn a cant and not mar it up or even turn a big log, I use my SkyTrak and a nylon strap/tow rope.  I have one that is a very big continuous loop made from about a 20' strap.  I put it around the log so it cinches underneath.  Then I lift while pulling away from the log stop.  That allows it to roll towards the stop.  I use it to support most of the weight so it doesn't slam down on the bed.

I now have a second, bigger, cant hook and plan to try a two-man, two-hook turn to see how that goes.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

kelLOGg

You might modify something like what I use with a tow strap.



Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Magicman

Whatever you do you can not do without a couple of these:  Cant Hooks - LogRite Tools LLC
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

firefighter ontheside

I have short woodmizer hook, but also homemade 6 foot hook made by former member here, gfadvm.  It probably wouldn't do much with a 5000lb log though.  I plan to have a single hook on a chain to be able to turn logs on my mill with the tractor.  Should be able to turn logs that I can't necessarily lift.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Magicman

 

 
I regularly use these "Magic Hooks" that were repurposed from broken logging tongs.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

roger 4400

This summer I had some 30 inch pine logs on my manual Baker sawmill. To turn those logs **easily** I put one or two wedges on the mill cross members and use a 4 ft log rite. The logs easily turn on the metal cross members and the wedges hold them in place. 
Baker 18hd sawmill, massey Ferguson 1643, Farmi winch, mini forwarder, Honda foreman 400, f-250, many wood working tools, 200 acres wooden lots,6 kids and a lovely and a comprehensive wife...and now a Metavic 1150 m14 log loader so my tractor is a forwarder now

mike_belben

Some blocking across the mill frame parallel to the log and a pair of good rigging bars levering off the block will inch it around.  May have to scoot the log away from the backstops then roll towards them with the bars and repeat.


Or come in from the backstop side with your loader, hook a chain over the the center of the log, then curl back to parbuckle in place against the backstops.  If you can do so gently and without harm to mill or machine, let the front tires park against the mill frame so you dont jar it out of alignment or off any footings etc.  Just a bit more stabilization. 
Praise The Lord

PAmizerman

Woodmizer lt40 super remote 42hp Kubota diesel. Accuset II
Hydraulics everywhere
Woodmizer edger 26hp cat diesel
Traverse 6035 telehandler
Case 95xt skidloader
http://byrnemillwork.com/
WM bms250 sharpener
WM bmt250 setter
and a lot of back breaking work!!

Crusarius

I thought about mounting an electric winch with a hook, then mount it to my carriage just to roll the log. But not sure its a good idea. Especially since I want something to be able to roll logs up the ramps to.

Magicman

I have "reverse" turned a big/heavy log using a chain, Magic Hook, and log clamp.


 



 

When the clamp moved in the log was reverse turned against the side supports.  Works like a charm.  ;)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Skipper11A

Charles,  Your tractor CAN turn those 5,000 pound logs.  Remember, it doesn't have to lift the logs, it just needs to roll them against the backstops.  Your tractor will handle that with ease.  The other posters have provided different rigging suggestions and they all work great.  I think the J hook is the least reliable option because it doesn't always bite into the log well enough...but they work.  

Magicman

You very obviously have never used one. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Crusarius

Wonder if logrite will sell just the hook? That would be nice on the end of a cable

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

PC-Urban-Sawyer

You beat me to MM...

Herb

Crusarius

Sweet, you guys are awesome. Thanx.

Skipper11A

Quote from: Magicman on September 10, 2018, 02:04:18 PMYou very obviously have never used one. 
MM, your condescension seems inappropriate on this forum.   Actually, A "J" hook is what I  always use to turn the big ones, and they can have trouble biting into the wood. 

Quote from: Crusarius on September 10, 2018, 02:14:19 PMWonder if Logrite will sell just the hook? That would be nice on the end of a cable
Crusarius, I just looked at my Logrite Cant Hooks and I think their hooks would work great on the end of a cable.  You may have to hammer the point into the log but they look thick enough to do the job.  Get their longest hook.

Magicman

My apology to you if my words seemed harsh or were misinterpreted.  The backside of my hooks are shiny where they always get a rap or two with my hatchet before any load is applied.  The above pictures happened to be taken before such action took place. 

I said:  " Works like a charm."

You stated:  "I think the J hook is the least reliable option because it doesn't always bite into the log well enough...but they work."

I agree with you that "they work" but I fail to agree with you that they are in any way "unreliable".

I do not see "condescending" but I do see "disagreeing". 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Hilltop366

Quote from: charles mann on September 10, 2018, 01:50:04 AMand also don't want to potentially mar up the live edge during turning


Sounds like ljohnsaw's tow strap ls the best answer for this purpose.

The non marring log turner could be in demand with all the slab making going on, I'm thinking some sort of conveyer belts arranged in a V shape that would push up the log and turn it or a pair of wheels and tires.

btulloh

Three turns around the log with a tow strap or any 2" nylon strap will turn any log.  Keep a little tension on the bitter end of the strap.  

I'll just throw this out there and I know it could start a ruckus, but there's very little difference between pulling UP on the strap and pulling SIDEWAYS on the strap.   pull_smiley

Using any or all the ways mentioned above will get the job done.  I think it's good to have all of these in your tool box and then choose one to fit the circumstance.
HM126

Magicman

I like the multi-wraps with a strap idea.   smiley_idea   No marring and the tension should prevent it from slipping.  smiley_thumbsup

My situation is that unless the landowner has a tractor/FEL, I have to depend upon using whatever turning that I can muster out of the sawmill's hydraulics.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

charles mann

Hilltop, i like that pair of wheels thing. Set them up like a toe board a few bunk rails apart from each other. Hydro the wheel boards up and turn the log, either by hand or by hydro. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

charles mann

Quote from: Hilltop366 on September 10, 2018, 07:51:25 PM
Quote from: charles mann on September 10, 2018, 01:50:04 AMand also don't want to potentially mar up the live edge during turning


Sounds like ljohnsaw's tow strap ls the best answer for this purpose.

The non marring log turner could be in demand with all the slab making going on, I'm thinking some sort of conveyer belts arranged in a V shape that would push up the log and turn it or a pair of wheels and tires.
Instead of a chain or claw, like you said, replace chain and sprokets with dead rollers and use some conveyor belting that has enogh distance between the roller, to allow the wt. of the log to provide its own grip on the rubber, and turn the log, using the chain motor. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Hilltop366

The chain turners I have seen seem to turn the log against the back stops, I'm thinking the backstops will dig into the log or the log will try to climb the backstop which got me to thinking about the V shape and then the wheels.

I think the wheel idea would be the easiest to make as it could be done with off the shelf or scrapyard parts.

I guess one could weld up the spider gears in a rear differential and use the entire rear axel along with a set of idler wheels (4 wheels in total), put your power to the input shaft (this also gives you a gear reduction) to make the wheels turn

Will it work?  I guess we won't know until someone tries it.

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