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Easy way to break the clutch nut on my 395???

Started by Arborton, November 26, 2012, 12:46:40 AM

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Arborton

My 395 clutch spring broke, and the rest are rusted.  I should have been greasing it. 

I'm having a problem breaking the nut to turn the clutch, and take it off.  I'm guessing I need to look for a deal on an air compressor and an impact wrench to get it. 

Any other ideas?  Thanks

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

There are several very knowledgable members here that will be able to help you out. Doubt you need to buy an impact system to getRdun.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

JohnG28

Are you trying to remove it like a conventional bolt? This is reverse threaded,  clockwise to loosen a clutch. Welcome to the forum as well.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Al_Smith

Impact wrench is probabley the easiest but you can block the cylinder with a wad of rope and wrench it off if you have enough leverage .Don't forget  left hand thread .

They can get pretty tight .I've had to stick a piece of pipe over a breaker bar before to get enough ooomph to break them loose .Never broke a vibration mount yet but it did concern me .

thecfarm

Arborton,welcome to the forum. I don't think you should be greasing the clutch springs. Those springs will break after so many years. I've had it happen to just about every saw I have owned. Metal gets old and they break.My aggravation is worth alot to me. I just take it to the shop and pay the money to the guy to keep me happy.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

swampbuggy

One of the little tricks I found is to remove the spark plug and making sure the piston is in the down position insert as much rope as it will take. Then as the piston move up to compression it locks the crankshaft so you can put good pressure on the nut. They make a tool for this, but I never needed to buy one. I use a good nylon 1/2" rope and never had a problem. It won't scar the piston either. Dan
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

Hilltop366

Welcome,  I have a 1/2" electric impact gun, It is not an expensive tool as it came as a "free" throw in with some impact sockets i bought, I was kind of sceptical about it having any power but to my surprise it works rather well.

AdkStihl

Quote from: swampbuggy on November 26, 2012, 07:23:39 AM
One of the little tricks I found is to remove the spark plug and making sure the piston is in the down position insert as much rope as it will take. Then as the piston move up to compression it locks the crankshaft so you can put good pressure on the nut. They make a tool for this, but I never needed to buy one. I use a good nylon 1/2" rope and never had a problem. It won't scar the piston either. Dan

Not a good idea unless you want a bent connecting rod.... :-\
Always make sure the piston is near (few degrees before) TDC and insert just enough starter rope to stop the piston.
J.Miller Photography

HolmenTree

Quote from: AdkStihl on November 26, 2012, 09:36:52 AM
Quote from: swampbuggy on November 26, 2012, 07:23:39 AM
One of the little tricks I found is to remove the spark plug and making sure the piston is in the down position insert as much rope as it will take.

Not a good idea unless you want a bent connecting rod.... :-\
Always make sure the piston is near (few degrees before) TDC and insert just enough starter rope to stop the piston.
Yes also keep the piston above the exhaust port so the rope doesn't just jammed between piston and port opening.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

Well definately the higher up in the cylinder the less stress on the rod .I'd well imagine though you'd break the anti vibs before you bent a rod .

While on the subject a little trick concerning Stihls .On some models they didn't leave enough of a nut like shape on the clutch spider to get a good grip with a socket ,too darned short .Take a socket and belt sand the chamfer off the end then it will gain enough purchase to not slip off and try to break your arm  .

lumberjack48

When using a inpack wrench, pull the rewing rope out about 4" or so. Other wise theres a posiblity of breaking something on the rewind.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Al_Smith

If do use an impact I just pull the starter off and don't even block the piston .Usually they come loose .

Arborton

I know you guys know your stuff.  Much of the advice on this thread I've learned from other mechanics.  This is great forum!   logrite_cool

I think if I put a pipe on wrench, I should get enough ooomph to break it loose.  I'll try that out now, and be back here.

Thanks, all

Arborton

I put a stretch of pvc to work over my scrench, and the thing broke loose very easily.  I ordered the $5 spring for the clutch.  It will be here in a week. 

Thanks, fellers. 

swampbuggy

Quote from: AdkStihl on November 26, 2012, 09:36:52 AM
Quote from: swampbuggy on November 26, 2012, 07:23:39 AM
One of the little tricks I found is to remove the spark plug and making sure the piston is in the down position insert as much rope as it will take. Then as the piston move up to compression it locks the crankshaft so you can put good pressure on the nut. They make a tool for this, but I never needed to buy one. I use a good nylon 1/2" rope and never had a problem. It won't scar the piston either. Dan

Not a good idea unless you want a bent connecting rod.... :-\
Always make sure the piston is near (few degrees before) TDC and insert just enough starter rope to stop the piston.

I doubt if blocking the cyl to remove the nut would cause a bent rod. If it did, you had other problems before you ever tried to stop the piston movement. And yes, don't put the rope in the exhaust port.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

Arborton

And if you do, just get a flash light and put some grease on the end of a screw driver to get the little piece of rope out before putting the spark plug on.  Might need the help of a vacuum and a tweezer to get that  piece out.

AdkStihl

QuoteI doubt if blocking the cyl to remove the nut would cause a bent rod. If it did, you had other problems before you ever tried to stop the piston movement. And yes, don't put the rope in the exhaust port



 
J.Miller Photography

Al_Smith

Did somebody impact that thing with a blocked piston or is that the new "pretzel " design ?

beenthere

Al,   that's the new anti-vibe rod with an adjustment for a shorter stroke.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Al_Smith

 :D  Shorter stroke eh hmm --better not go there  ;)

AdkStihl

Quote from: Al_Smith on November 27, 2012, 04:49:39 PM
Did somebody impact that thing with a blocked piston or is that the new "pretzel " design ?

Crank belongs to a fellow forum member on another site. IIRC this was from an MS180.
Rope was used as a piston stop. Hand tools were used.....with a little too much force.

This is why I use an impact for clutches and flywheels. No piston stop required!
J.Miller Photography

CTYank

Quote from: Al_Smith on November 27, 2012, 04:49:39 PM
Did somebody impact that thing with a blocked piston or is that the new "pretzel " design ?

Stihl, in some homeowner saws, simply punches out the rods from mild steel. Notice also that it's plain rectangular section, not webbed like a proper beam where weight is a concern. As an engineer, I'd call that lousy design. That's just me, though. Should NEVER happen.

I've heard also that some of their pistons are delicate, AND that unless you have the service manual you can't know how to avoid breaking them. Dealers have those manuals, NOT users.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

Al_Smith

Dealers would like to think they are the select elite privy to Stihl tech manuals .Nothing could be farther away from the truth . ;)Now granted they have easier access to them but they aren't the only ones with the keys to the castle .

Al_Smith

Oh say I had seen a similar picture of a bent rod from a Stihl consumer saw as compared to a less expensive Poulan .The Poulan was a better design to the surprise of many .

Stihl as rule builds some pretty bullitproof designs this evidently is not one of them .However we on the outside just looking at a photo have no idea how it got pretzeled .

Somebody could have gotten on the clutch and armstronged it the wrong direction using the arm of a great giant ape . Tight is tight ,too tight is broke .

AdkStihl

 
QuoteDealers have those manuals, NOT users

Hardly true at all. Anyone with a computer and some will power has access to any STIHL IPL or Service Manual known to exist!

move_it


Was it a poor design......YES.
Is it possible to bend a conn rod.......absolutely.......I dont care how its made.

J.Miller Photography

Al_Smith

Not to change the subject but speaking of rods I ran into something I found interesting. My bud the tree trimer had one of his blowers loose a fight to a dump truck ,busted it all up so he gave it to me .Not a problem I found a fairly clean  BG 85 from flea bay with a blown engine and now I am  the proud owner of a 65 dollar Stihl blower that  works excellant .

The doner blower had an engine with a blown rod .Now I've worked on a lot of Stihl products and have never seen any where a rod let loose except this thing .I've seen saws where it had literally  grenaded the piston and never did a thing to the rod or the cylinder .I've got an 038 Mag in my shed as I type being one of them which runs like a new one .

So what I'm saying is in my opinion they make pretty good rods as a rule .Fact on Husky 3120 hot saws they use an 084 rod if that tells you anything .

Kemper

I change mine in the woods with an $8 piston block that takes the place of the spark plug. Take a closed end wrench and pop it once with a small hammer. Make sure you are going clockwise with the wrench as they are reverse threads.

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